tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12517683600032482302024-02-19T01:08:50.371-08:00The Atheist-Friendly ChristianThis is a blog I am writing, in hopes of breaking down the barriers that seperate christians and atheists. It is more for christians to realize what they are doing that puts atheists in a defensive position, and stop it.Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-33678489884355406202013-10-06T13:46:00.002-07:002013-10-06T13:46:48.167-07:00What Christianity has taught me, and why I am still a Christian<div class="MsoNormal">
I have been told on several occasions that I am not a Christian,
because I have liberal views about Jesus and the Bible. Things like hanging out
with atheists to learn more about their perspective, to supporting gay rights,
and more, have gotten me labeled as a heretic, blasphemer, sinful heathen, vile
Christian, and many other colorful names that I won’t put in this article. Labels
have never worked well for me because I cant find one that fits me perfectly. <o:p></o:p></div>
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Before I explain why I am still a Christian, I want to take
a moment to describe what being a Christian has taught me. I learned the real
meaning of love, from being a Christian. The lessons of Jesus have truly
changed the man that I am today. Just ask my wife. My wife and I, have a
marriage that almost all of our friends, and anyone who knows us, envies on a
regular basis. Not a week goes by, that someone doesn’t tell Jenise or I, that
they wish we had what we have. But it wasn’t always like that. You can read all
about it, if you want in my article about “my personal testimony.” In a
nutshell, I learned how to love my wife when she wasn’t doing things my way. I
learned to love her when she was being irrational, irresponsible, illogical,
and just plain unfair. I learned to love her, the way Jesus loved us, when He
was willing to die on the cross, for people who did, and would, despise Him. I
learned about Agape love. I have always been told that “true love is blind.”
The lessons in the Bible actually taught me that “true love is NOT blind. True
love sees everything, but loves anyway.” If anyone wants to know, that is the
secret to our happiness and longevity of our marriage. I didn’t know these
things, before I was a Christian. In fact, I had a very “primal” attitude that
only the strong had the right to survive. If someone hurt you, or took
advantage of you, it was your own fault for being so week. That was the
attitude my wife had to endure for so many years. Looking back, I have no idea
why she was so determined to stay with me, in spite of my loveless,
emotionless, and heartless beliefs. <o:p></o:p></div>
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After reading about Jesus, and what the new testament says
about how a husband should love his wife, I slowly changed my attitude towards
my wife. I am indebted to my Christian faith for not just saving my marriage,
but for making it a marriage that almost every person who really knows my wife
and I, wish they could have. I know there are parts of the Bible that are not
about love, and some parts are just outright horrible. But this isn’t an
article in defense of my faith or the Bible. Some people have said things like “Well,
you shouldn’t need a God to be good,” or “you are a pretty shallow person if
you need ancient bronze-age fairy tales to be a good husband.” And to all those
things I say “So what?” Good for you, if you can be good without a God. Good
for you, if you are a good spouse without “fairy tales” and parables. I couldn’t.
I needed those things in my life to change my perspective. And as a result, I
have an amazingly strong and happy marriage of 20 years and counting. Every
person that has ever criticized me, could not say the same, regardless if they
were Christian or Atheist. <o:p></o:p></div>
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Now in regards to why I am still a Christian, who ever
said that a Christian had to be perfect? Not any Christian I have ever met. Not
the bible. Not any church I have attended. There seems to be this notion that “Christians”
are supposed to act a certain way or do certain things. That’s all well and good,
but none of this has been documented in the Bible that I can find. How about
this? Being a Christian is a journey. And some people are further along in
their journey. I will even retract the word “further” and replace it with “at a
different place” in their journey. The bible was meant to be an experience for
everyone. Everyone I know has different stories and different experiences with
God. That says a lot to me. We are all supposed to have different experiences.
Just like the prodigal son had a different experience than Esther. I could go
on and on. The point is, I am a Christian. And for all the things I do that are
“unchristian-like” in some people’s minds, is only a testimony that I need
Jesus in my life. I am not as bad of a person as I was 15 years ago, and I am
confident I will be a better person in 15 more years. But mostly, I am a Christian
for what I believe and uphold. I uphold the divinity of Christ, the sonship of
Christ, the incarnation, the fact that God the Salvation is imaged in Christ,
and I hold that Salvation is by virtue of God alone; this salvation revealed as
living revelation in the person of Jesus, and his actions: And that this
atonement has alone been revealed by Jesus, the Incarnate Body, and all of this
subsumed in the Godhead.<o:p></o:p></div>
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I uphold that God's Love, and Justice, and all of God's divine
attributes work in one accord, one unity, for divine purpose in harmony, not in
dichotomy. I do not deny, or pit any of
God's attributes against one another. I
hold that Salvation is a simultaneous work of God's Love, Justice, Mercy, and
Grace in one unanimous accord, and will, for the holy, and righteous purposes
of God.<o:p></o:p></div>
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I uphold that Christ was born of the chosen virgin Mary
mother of Jesus, crucified by Pontious Pilate, dying, was buried, and
resurrected to sit at the right hand of God the Father.<o:p></o:p></div>
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I affirm, and confess that Jesus Christ came in the
flesh, and is God the Son, beloved son of the Father, conceived of God by the
overshadowing of God the Holy Spirit; and established through his being, and
actions, the Kingdom of God in Earth, as it is in Heaven.<o:p></o:p></div>
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I affirm that Salvation is by God and the exercise of
God's power, nature, and agency - through Grace and Faith given by God to the
Human, and uphold Monergism, and Monistic Agency whereby God achieves his will
in the Human.<o:p></o:p></div>
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That I hold that Salvation is for all and achieved in all
because of the majesty, power, nature, and attributes of God does not deny
saving faith, nor does it imply "damnable", and it certainly does not
mean that I am worshipping a "different god". I worship the God. Ho Theos.
Being itself. The God of All in
All, which the Bible testifies of, and which the God gives revelation through,
as God also gives revelation through Creation, Revelation, Prophecy, Divine
Encounters, and the Truths of God.<o:p></o:p></div>
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In so far as Universalism goes the only thing it does is
take the issue of Eternal Damnation, Eternity, or Aion-Aionios (from the
approach of both Temporality, or Eternality) and approach it from a different
angle. Which is that God's actions are
corrective, and restorative (which is perfectly in line with his attributes in
unity, and his personhood) rather than merely afflictive, or even
anticorrective as in the case of Damnationalists who believe that "Hell
increaseth the sin, and where sin increaseth, the wrath afflicts abounding all
the more".<o:p></o:p></div>
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It is possible to derive Universalism from the spirit of
the Biblical themes, and it is especially possible to derive from Philosophical
approaches to Ontology, especially in light of Monism, and Monergism.<o:p></o:p></div>
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For example it is possible for a person to hold to both
Eternal Damnation, and Eternal Salvation for all persons simultaneously. One need only take the verses as saying,
expressed by the Apostle Paul, that the "old man" (sin, and our
identification with a sinful nature) is eternally damned, and destroyed. It (by Christ) is put to an end in us. It is by virtue of God's renewing power that
the "new man" (righteousness, and our identification with the
righteous nature in unity with Christ, as children of God, etc) is by Christ
given life, and freedom in the Lord as silver is purged of dross, or wheat is
purged of chaff.<o:p></o:p></div>
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I hold that God's Justice is so thorough that it will not
allow sin, and a sinful identity to remain even in a state of imprisoned
affliction. And in doing so restores
through Christ the very health, and holiness of that which God has expressed
through his Creation. In other words:
God is not content to enshrine sin in a closet, but destroys it, so that the
goodness of his workmanship (all of creation) shall live restored to him. </div>
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God is not content to contain crime in a prison designed
to afflict. The purpose of God is to
achieve the end of crime altogether such that the prison has served its
corrective purpose, and the prisoners (by the omnipotent power of God, and the
omniscient knowledge of how to achieve restoration in what he himself has made)
rehabilitated, and reconciled through Christ to the Father. Just as we, once being prisoners to evil, and
in allegiance to the Enemy, were by that very merciful Christ reconciled back,
for the glory of God, and all the goodness that is of his Name, and
Nature. Even as we were saved back to
ourselves, seated in Heavenly Places in Eternity beyond Time, saved to Christ
with whom, and in whom we have unity in God, for Christ, and through Christ,
and in Christ; so too will "all be reconciled" and "all be
restored" to the glory of the Father.
Whereby for the glory of the Father true worship will be expressed (in
Truth [life, and way] and in Spirit) by every knee, and every tongue confessing
that Jesus is Lord. A confession which
can only be given by one who is indwelt by the Spirit, which is the seal of
Salvation, and given upon Salvation, by the Lord God Christ Almighty and
Beloved Son of the Father.<o:p></o:p></div>
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To add to this, if the thief on the cross can make his declaration just hours before his death, when he saw Jesus, then I contend a person can make the same declaration to save themselves, just hours after their death. When they have witnessed Jesus. </div>
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Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-77722495590040832272013-09-02T11:35:00.003-07:002013-09-02T11:35:42.009-07:00My friend took his own life this past Friday; He was an atheistThis past Friday, I learned that a friend of mine took his
own life. He was an atheist. In fact, I met him when I joined a local atheist
club in town, to get a better understanding of the atheist way of life and
outlook. I gave him rides to the atheist meetings several times and we became
friends on facebook. We were never overly close, but from time to time he would
message me late at night when he was sad or lonely. His name was Johnny. He
came from a very religious family and he always felt pressured by his family to
accept God. Instead, he identified himself as a staunch atheist. He even had
the atheist logo tattooed on his chest. The thing is, I don’t think he was an atheist.
He would participate in the typical atheist arguments about how God wasn’t real
and science has shown time again that God wasn’t needed for life to begin. But
there as more to him than that. When it was just him and I, he talked about
being angry with God. He talked about how he had screamed out to God in anger,
and despair. He felt that his family forced religion on him as a youth, and as
a result he rebelled as an adult. I don’t believe that Johnny was an atheist
based on some of our late night conversations. At the very least, he was
definitely curious about a lot of my ideas and opinions about the Bible, God,
Jesus, the church, and religion. I can’t say if Johnny was a true atheist or
not.<div>
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<o:p></o:p></div>
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What I can say, is that Johnny had some well-meaning
Christians in his life who may have pushed him away from God. The very people
who were called to bring people to the Lord, may have been the one’s who kept
Johnny from wanting God in his life. Early in the past year, Johnny’s father
passed away. When this happened, I got a random message from him asking if we
could talk. I agreed and he began to tell me how alone and dark he was feeling.
He told me that he didn’t want to live. He wanted to mourn the loss of his
father, but he felt that he was being attacked by some family and friends. He
was told that his father desperately wanted him to know God. He was told that
if he loved his father, he would accept Jesus because that was his father’s
desire. He was told that he will go to
hell. He was told he was a disappointment to his father. I want to tell all of
my Christian brethren out there, that even if you really think all of this is
true; not everything that is true, is always helpful. This is not the way. <o:p></o:p></div>
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I don’t know where Johnny is right now. Since I learned of
his passing, I have prayed for him, several times a day. I have prayed that God
knows his heart. That God can see how confused Johnny was. How betrayed he
felt. How hurt he was. I have wept for Johnny on several occasions this past
weekend. I wept when I first learned of his passing. I wept when I posted the
picture he drew for me on facebook. I wept this morning as I drove to the gym. And as I type this, my eyes are watering and I am choking back tears. I cannot believe that Johnny is burning in some hell right now. What I know of
God, is that He is 1000 times more loving and compassionate than I could hope
to be. If my heart is broken for Johnny, then God’s has to be, as well. I
imagine God wrapping Johnny in his arms. I imagine Johnny weeping and saying “I’m
sorry, but it hurt so bad.” And I imagine God saying “I know my son. And I love
you.” To me, that is “love.” That is compassion. That is everlasting fatherly
love and mercy. That is what God is. <o:p></o:p></div>
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In the Bible, Moses pleads with God to have mercy on the
Israelites because they have turned their back on God. Numbers 14:11-20 says: 11 The Lord said to Moses, “How long will this
people spurn Me? And how long will they not believe in Me, despite all the
signs which I have performed in their midst? 12 I will smite them with
[a]pestilence and dispossess them, and I will make you into a nation greater
and mightier than they.” 13 But Moses said to the Lord, “Then the Egyptians
will hear of it, for by Your strength You brought up this people from their
midst, 14 and they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land. They have
heard that You, O Lord, are in the midst of this people, for You, O Lord, are
seen eye to eye, while Your cloud stands over them; and You go before them in a
pillar of cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night. 15 Now if You slay
this people as one man, then the nations who have heard of Your fame will
[b]say, 16 ‘Because the Lord could not bring this people into the land which He
promised them by oath, therefore He slaughtered them in the wilderness.’ 17 But
now, I pray, let the power of the Lord be great, just as You have [c]declared,
18 ‘The Lord is slow to anger and abundant in loving kindness, forgiving
iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting
the iniquity of the fathers on the children [d]to the third and the fourth generations.’
19 Pardon, I pray, the iniquity of this people according to the greatness of
Your loving kindness, just as You also have forgiven this people, from Egypt
even until now.” 20 So the Lord said, “I have pardoned them according to your
word.” The people didn’t believe in God. They didn’t trust in him, and yet God
was merciful because of the prayer of Moses. Later in the Bible, Jesus does the
same thing. In Luke 23:24 He says “34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for
they do not know what they are doing.”[a] And they divided up his clothes by
casting lots. In both the Old Testament and the New, we see an example of
someone who knew and loved God, pleading with God for those who did not
understand. Why would Jesus pray for those who turned their back on him, if it wouldn’t
do any good? I have prayed to God, on behalf of my friend Johnny, that God
would see how wounded Johnny was. How confused Johnny was. How hurt Johnny was.
And I know that God can see that Johnny’s despair was caused in part, by people
who were supposed to be God’s representatives. The one’s who were supposed to
bring Johnny to od were some of the very people who pushed Johnny away from
God. I know not every Christian in Johnny’s life was like that. I know a couple
of the Christians in Johnny’s life were very compassionate and we tried to show
God to Johnny, in a loving way. But maybe we didn’t do enough. I don’t know. <o:p></o:p></div>
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All I know is that my friend is gone. And it hurts. Like I
said, we weren’t really “that” close. But I mourn for <o:p></o:p></div>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEguULaK8uOTta-xuL4CPSFPPxvsvJWb8yAmjoPcgqEdJ6wU4IEKWTAUMTwWZObSfev1J36_JBoiGlNtXpTlZuQfP0agih2eIsa4PL_GEr3Jy2dTn0FQ_Fhy7-zGwvG1LuYC3jOGJ1ioLMcr/s1600/1173597_10200484973382590_12924623_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEguULaK8uOTta-xuL4CPSFPPxvsvJWb8yAmjoPcgqEdJ6wU4IEKWTAUMTwWZObSfev1J36_JBoiGlNtXpTlZuQfP0agih2eIsa4PL_GEr3Jy2dTn0FQ_Fhy7-zGwvG1LuYC3jOGJ1ioLMcr/s320/1173597_10200484973382590_12924623_n.jpg" width="240" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Johnny drew this for me last January. <br />I gave it to my wife for our 19th anniversary. <br />He was very talented. </td></tr>
</tbody></table>
him like we were. I mourn
for his broken heart. I mourn for his mother who lost her husband and her son
in less than one year. And I pray that Christians will think about the things
they say to people and be aware of when they are slamming the gates of heaven
shut, in the faces of those who are wounded, hurt, and confused. <br />
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Rest in peace, Johnny. I will miss you. And I will do
everything I can to make sure your death was not in vain. I will tell your
story in hopes that Christians will realize how powerful and hurtful their
words can be. I will tell your story to encourage Christians to tell everyone
the good news about Jesus’ death, rather than the horrific news of God’s anger,
wrath, and death, that too many “believe in.” <o:p></o:p></div>
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Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-47200455400883903022013-01-15T09:24:00.001-08:002013-01-15T09:24:12.692-08:00A letter to my christian friends; especially the fundamentalists
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<span class="usercontent"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; mso-ansi-language: EN;">No, I do not know Hebrew and Greek,
and no, I do not have a theological degree, and no, I do not understand how
everything in the Bible fits together with everything in life, including my
life. </span></span><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; mso-ansi-language: EN;"><br />
<span class="usercontent">Though I'd say that my life has more value to me than
any book, and anyone's life, even yours, even though some of you frustrate the
hell out of me, I believe counts for more than any book.</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">Personally, to be honest, sometimes I hate the Bible. </span><br />
<span class="usercontent">I hate how it causes so much strife and conflict and
war, and how people use it to hurt each other, to weigh others down so they
feel like life is empty and crazy, like the universe is run by Someone who is
neither dynamic nor compassionate, who is, instead, petty and capricious... how
people use it to fit life and all of its meaning into some tiny box, when life
is so much bigger than that...</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">There are beautiful things I have read in its pages...
there are wonderful things... I've found things that are encouraging and
challenging, things that speak powerfully, things that give hope... but there
are ugly and crazy things too, at least from where I'm standing.</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">But, to tell the truth, what has happened to me in my
life has spoken more powerfully to me than anything in the Bible. The miracles,
the love of people, all those moments of beauty and wonder and joy, and those
moments when I thought life was not worth living anymore, but then, somehow, I
found a reason to go on...</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">These things speak more to me than anything I've read
in the book that others fight about and use as leverage to wound each other and
crush each others spirits...</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">I spent more years as an agnostic/atheist than a
believer, and though at times I have been afraid to ask questions, for fear of
God lashing out at me for doing so, though there have been times I have kept my
silence, even when my heart cried out for some kind of explanation, or at least
some kind of comfort or hope, I will do so no longer. I cannot help but say
what I feel. </span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">I was not raised in a church and taught to accept only
the answers fed to me, but rather I was taught by my parents that it is okay to
think for yourself... and I've learned that being honest matters more than just
about anything.</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">As Shakespeare said 'In these sad times we must obey...
speak what we feel, and not what we ought to say.'</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">If I cannot be honest with God, real with God, then
what good is it to even try and engage with Him? If He just tells me to shut up
when my heart is breaking, when there are questions screaming inside of me,
when there are fears and doubts raging within me, then why even bother to talk
to Him, let alone listen to Him?</span><br />
<span class="usercontent">Why even bother to believe in Him? :/</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">One thing I can say I've gathered from the Bible though
is that people in it ask questions... and though God sometimes questions them
back, He never strikes them with lightning because they questioned, and never
destroys them just because they were crying out for answers... </span><br />
<span class="usercontent">I dare you to deny that such is the case in the Bible,
or in life.</span><br />
<span class="usercontent">If God could not handle our questions, then mankind would
have been annihilated long ago, and we wouldn't even be here talking...</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">So I am not afraid to ask questions, or at least not as
much as I used to be.</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">I question the traditional belief that homosexuality is
wrong. And why? Because I have had and have friends who have struggled with
this and cannot find any answers to it, any way around it, though they tried as
hard as they could to be something they were not, to make others happy, or
presumably, make God happy, even though it seems as though they were born the
way they are, and thus it seems as though God made them the way they are, and
now they should feel ashamed of something that God may be responsible for...
and because I feel compassion for them, I wonder why God wouldn't have
compassion too, since He supposedly is near to the broken-hearted and crushed
in spirit...</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">I question the traditional belief that the Bible is
inerrant because I believe that God can work through brokenness, through
messes, through writers that don't have everything right (this includes me) and
because I do not believe that God fits anymore in a book than in a box, and
because I believe He is more than the God of the Bible, as if the Bible was all
God consisted of, but the LORD of all creation is rather the God of you and me,
the Creator and Father of all, and that is a truth that words alone cannot
contain or describe...</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">And I question the traditional belief in an everlasting
hell for sinners, because I believe that God can do better than that, because I
believe that real justice is found in setting things right, in making things
better than they are, in restoration and reconciliation... and that God's wrath
is a passionate desire to make things right, to restore, and not just some
desire to exercise fury and breaks things and hurt people, as it is with us...
what good is punishment, if it leads nowhere at all? </span><br />
<span class="usercontent">Isn't God a master of bringing good out of bad, of
bringing light out of darkness? </span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">I believe that God making His enemies into His friends
is more glorious than sweeping His enemies, which presumably includes the
majority of the human race, even those who try to live and love as best they
can, under a rug forever. </span><br />
<span class="usercontent">And I believe that God's glory is not in a show of
power, but is in His character, and in His heart... that when Moses saw God's
glory, he saw a God who was compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and
abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness... </span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">I believe it is God's character and heart that is His
glory, and when He is glorified in all the earth, it will be the glory of His
character and His heart that will be spread... and in that day people will go
out with joy and be led forth in peace, and the mountains and the hills will
break out into shouts of joy before them, and the trees of the field will clap
their hands... </span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">I believe that the day will come when all of this
fighting and bickering will be done, when God shall judge the nations, and
settle disputes for many peoples, and when we shall beat our swords into
plowshares, and our spears into pruning hooks, when nation shall not rise
against nation (nor individual shall rise against individual), and we shall not
learn war anymore... </span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">I believe that God will swallow up death for all time,
and will wipe away tears from all faces, and will remove the reproach of His
people from all the earth... </span><br />
<span class="usercontent">No more death, no more tears or pain, no more shame or
blame... no more fear, or doubt, no more wrestling with sin, no more wrestling
in the dark... when all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well,
and every heart will find its home, resting in the One who knows and
understands every heart...</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">This is my vision, or at least as much as I can put it
into words. </span><br />
<span class="usercontent">If you could step inside of me, you could see it in the
connecting dots, in the stories that have moved me, in the memories, in the
faces, the moments, the miracles, and most of all in the longing and the aching
I have felt so often in my life.</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">And this is how I see things, though I'm hard-pressed
to find words for it...</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">But, what I see matters nothing to some of you here, or
so it seems. :/</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">It seems that you would like me to fit into your little
box, so you will not be inconvenienced with all of my questions and my
struggles, so you can glory in your own rightness, in having everything figured
out, even if that means leaving others out in the cold. :/</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">Any belief, any theology, any worldview, that leaves
anyone without hope or meaning, that leaves them longing and aching for more,
in this crazy world, to me is not really worth believing in. It just doesn't
cut it. </span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">You can argue this till you are blue in the face, but
the fact is, if what you're selling weighs a person down more than it lifts
them up, and if it crushes them more than it heals them, then not many people
will buy it, or should I think.</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">You can say 'well, it's the truth' as loudly as you
want, but if 'the truth' you're promoting isn't good news to those stumbling in
the dark, and isn't living water to those who are thirsty and dying, doesn't
fit into their heart of hearts and say to them 'there is hope', then you
shouldn't even bother promoting it.</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">People who refuse to settle for more rules or more fine
print know better, that when it comes down to it, the truth has to be something
better than all the pain and suffering in the world, and there's no point in
living.</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">Or, even if your closed-in view of reality is the real
one, all I can say is that I resonate with what C.S. Lewis wrote here in the
Silver Chair, in Puddleglum's famous speech:</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">"One word, Ma'am," he said, coming back from
the fire; limping, because of the pain. "One word. All you've been saying
is quite right, I shouldn't wonder. I'm a chap who always liked to know the
worst and then put the best face I can on it. So I won't deny any of what you
said. But there's one thing more to be said, even so. </span><br />
<span class="usercontent">Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all those
things - trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose
we have. Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a
good deal more important than the real ones. Suppose this black pit of a
kingdom of yours is the only world. Well, it strikes me as a pretty poor one.
And that's a funny thing, when you come to think of it. We're just babies
making up a game, if you're right. </span><br />
<span class="usercontent">But four babies playing a game can make a playworld
which licks your real world hollow. That's why I'm going to stand by the
play-world. I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm
going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia. So,
thanking you kindly for our supper, if these two gentlemen and the young lady
are ready, we're leaving your court at once and setting out in the dark to
spend our lives looking for Overland. Not that our lives will be very long, I
should think; but that's a small loss if the world's as dull a place as you
say."</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">You guys may think I'm stupid, you may think I'm naive,
you may think I'm a fool, you may say this or that, quote this verse or that
verse, do all you can to defend your position, positions which when I
entertained them in the past caused me to hit my head against walls, claw at
myself till I bled, and cry bitter tears and scream until my voice was hoarse,
tensing myself till I went into involuntary convulsions and felt like little more
than a frightened child, fragile and alone, like a fly fighting against the
universe, longing and aching for someone to hold him, to give him peace...</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">No doubt you have suffered, but so have I, if that
means anything to you.</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">No doubt you've struggled, but so have I, if that means
anything to you.</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">You may not give a damn about me or about what happens
to me, or whether I end up in heaven or in hell or as worm-food, but I would
hope that you would at least listen... at least try to understand...</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">If you don't even try, than I feel sorry for you...
sorry that your world is so small, and that your heart is so small...</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">I'll close with this, one of my favorite quotes,
written by Stephen King:</span><br />
<br />
<span class="usercontent">“The most important things are the hardest to say. They
are the things you get ashamed of, because words diminish them -- words shrink
things that seemed limitless when they were in your head to no more than living
size when they're brought out. But it's more than that, isn't it? The most
important things lie too close to wherever your secret heart is buried, like
landmarks to a treasure your enemies would love to steal away. And you may make
revelations that cost you dearly only to have people look at you in a funny
way, not understanding what you've said at all, or why you thought it was so
important that you almost cried while you were saying it. That's the worst, I
think. When the secret stays locked within not for want of a teller but for
want of an understanding ear.”</span></span><o:p></o:p></div>
Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com6tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-91968304702067358642012-12-18T17:58:00.000-08:002012-12-18T17:58:21.748-08:00The "war" on Christmas
<br />
<div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Each year there seems to be a "Christian
movement" to declare that there is a war on christmas. The implication is
that atheists are fighting to remove the the "Christ" from Christmas.
</span><o:p><span style="font-family: Calibri;"> </span></o:p></div>
<br />
<div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">I don't get it.</span><o:p><span style="font-family: Calibri;"> </span></o:p></div>
<br />
<div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">To my knowledge there is no law that prevents of any
christian from proclaiming "Merry Christmas." So where is the war?
Where are we as christians being attacked? Is it because a few retailers
decided to try and remain neutral and not be offensive to atheists? Ok.......I
hardly call that a war. My military background assures me that this is no war.
This is retailers modifying their policies with the changing times. So what?</span><o:p><span style="font-family: Calibri;"> </span></o:p></div>
<br />
<div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">If Christians are so concerned about Jesus being the
primary focus of Christmas then perhaps they should start with their own
methods of celebrating Christmas. Like participating in the rampant consumerism
that has become "the reason for the season." If Jesus is supposed to
be the focus of Christmas, maybe Christians should do the things that Jesus
did. Like feed the poor? </span><o:p><span style="font-family: Calibri;"> </span></o:p></div>
<br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhZqpddziXrBWcRqxpoHew4jiArpxaZ-E0WpcEBgFbZK_9NJcsIAnpHLoZZRBcfgJI0FahgbanX-FfLFAi0cCvcTQ891pMi1bREExlQ3bXYwepqGxeC48KeexZMuzYD1-EKC3ngPnItKb1o/s1600/the-war-on-christmas-rages-on.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhZqpddziXrBWcRqxpoHew4jiArpxaZ-E0WpcEBgFbZK_9NJcsIAnpHLoZZRBcfgJI0FahgbanX-FfLFAi0cCvcTQ891pMi1bREExlQ3bXYwepqGxeC48KeexZMuzYD1-EKC3ngPnItKb1o/s320/the-war-on-christmas-rages-on.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><strong><em>Seriously?? Is this happening, anywhere??</em></strong></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Each year in America, christians spend billions of
dollars support the pagan practice of consumerism. Some will argue that
consumerism is not a pagan practice and perhaps that's true. But its definitely
not a christian practice. </span><o:p><span style="font-family: Calibri;"> </span></o:p></div>
<br />
<div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Christmas didn't even start off as a christian
celebration. It has pagan roots and christians adopted the holiday years later.
So, Christmas has gone from a pagan holiday, to a christian holiday, back to a
pagan holiday that christians participate in.</span><o:p><span style="font-family: Calibri;"> </span></o:p></div>
<br />
<div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">If Christians really want to keep "Christ" in
Christmas they are free to say "Merry Christmas or Jesus is the reason for
the season" to anyone. They are free to put up all the nativity scenes in
their home that they want. They can light advent candles and read their kids
the story of Jesus' birth.</span><o:p><span style="font-family: Calibri;"> </span></o:p></div>
<br />
<div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">But if they really want to make Jesus the focus on
Christmas, then they should stop participating in consumerism and participate
in feeding homeless people.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<br />
<div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<o:p><span style="font-family: Calibri;"> </span></o:p></div>
<br />
<div class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Like Jesus would do.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-69129061275548617872012-09-15T11:56:00.000-07:002012-09-15T11:56:15.480-07:00A christians "right" to judge others <br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">The concept of “judging” seems to be one of the biggest topics of dissension among Christians today. On one hand, we see things that are bad and wrong. Someone says to us “Be careful, don’t judge them.” But we look at the situation and say “I don’t know, I kind of think I should be judging this.” Then we have other situations where someone just seems like they are elevating themselves above others. So when do we judge, and when do we not judge? </span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Mathew 7:1- “"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.<o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">This verse begins talking about judging. Then it turns to wood; planks and specks (I am assuming specks of sawdust) Then it concludes by talking about dogs, pigs, and pearls. Makes perfect sense, right? <o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">What exactly did Jesus mean when He said for us to “not judge?” The word judge, in the original Greek is the word Krino. In the Greek language, there are 3 different ways that the Krino is used.<o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">In Titus 3:12 we have one example of how Krino was used. <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">“</i><i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"><span style="color: #001320; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">As soon as I send Artemas or Tychicus to you, do your best to come to me at Nicopolis, because I have decided (krino) to winter there.”</span></i><span style="color: #001320; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"> This use of the word krino is to decide, to distinguish, to discern. It just means “to make a decision” about something. So let’s take this back to Matthew 7. Is Jesus telling us to not make decisions? Is He saying “Whatever you do, don’t make decisions, because then decisions will be made about you? I think you would agree with me that Jesus is not using that form of the word krino. <o:p></o:p></span></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="color: #001320; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">In John 18:31 <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Pilate said, "Take him yourselves and judge (krino) him by your own law."</i> So the second type of use for the word krino is to judge something, as in a courtroom. So, is Jesus saying “Don’t have courts? Because if you do, someone will have courts about you?” Is He saying we should do away with our courts and not worry about laws? No, He isn’t. <o:p></o:p></span></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="color: #001320; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">The third use for the word Krino, we find in 1 Corinthians 4:5<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">. “Therefore judge (krino) nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.”</i> <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It’s the second sentence of the verse that gives us the real meaning behind the use of the word. “He (God) will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts.” So, the third use of the word Krino is described as something that “God” does. It also says that it “exposes” the motives of the heart. So, this is saying that if we are going to judge someone the way God does, then we have to be able to know the motives of that person’s heart. If we don’t truly know the motives of that person’s heart, then we can’t possibly judge them correctly. That is for God to do. And God alone. <o:p></o:p></span></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="color: #001320; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Jesus uses Krino in John Chapter 7:24. Jesus uses this third form of krino and he says <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">“Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment." </i>What Jesus is saying is stop using the third type of Krino, and use the first type of Krino. <o:p></o:p></span></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="color: #001320; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Back to Matthew 7. What Jesus is talking about when He says “Don’t judge others” is about how we critique others. How we evaluate others. He is telling us that we are not to attempt to judge someone’s inner most motives, because we don’t truly know their heart. How can we, as humans, possibly know what a person is really thinking? And how many times do we judge someone and find out that we were wrong? We were wrong because although a person may have done a particular act, that “act” was just a simple action. That “act” doesn’t always “define” who that person is. We don’t always know the context of why someone does something. We don’t understand what led them to that conclusion. When Jesus is saying to not judge people, He is warning us to not to try and do God’s job. What He is saying in John 7:24, is for us to make right judgments. But that’s for us. We can judge in the sense that we can “decide” if something is right for us to do, but we are to be careful about trying to judge somebody’s motives. Again, that is God’s job according to the second sentence of John 7:24.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh_h_VhOw8KYYJ1bW-ycDAIA-icwWZhk84DDad4L8XhXA2znipijjgHHhEbIxvBC1MEs_KXiZ9YY8qI5ZqsorIl1QhaP9yLrq5zhfyYSO56XgQL6vWX1ITMIe8An39yC77K3xdYeEiwEHFO/s1600/untitled.png" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="191" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh_h_VhOw8KYYJ1bW-ycDAIA-icwWZhk84DDad4L8XhXA2znipijjgHHhEbIxvBC1MEs_KXiZ9YY8qI5ZqsorIl1QhaP9yLrq5zhfyYSO56XgQL6vWX1ITMIe8An39yC77K3xdYeEiwEHFO/s200/untitled.png" width="200" /></a></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="color: #001320; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;"><o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
</div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="color: #001320; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">So what does this mean to Christians? Should we turn a blind eye to the evils of society? No. That’ isn’t what I am saying. What I am saying, is that we need to be very careful about when we judge others. First, do we know why somebody did something? If we don’t know, we should be careful about judging. A single action, does not always define a person. Sometimes, people do things completely out of character for themselves. Do we give them grace, or do we crucify them based on a single action. Second, do we have authority to judge them? Again, if we feel we have authority over someone we have already elevated ourselves above them. I feel that it is ok to judge my wife and my children. Maybe some close family and friends. But that’s about it. And I am very careful about judging them. And I only feel its ok to judge them because there is already a relationship. I know them very well and I have a lot of insight in regards to their character and personhood. I also am open to them judging me. I give them permission to judge me because I want to be accountable to be the person I should be, as a Christian. </span></span></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><iframe allowfullscreen='allowfullscreen' webkitallowfullscreen='webkitallowfullscreen' mozallowfullscreen='mozallowfullscreen' width='320' height='266' src='https://www.youtube.com/embed/tQ6lE8bbWek?feature=player_embedded' frameborder='0'></iframe></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="color: #001320; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;"><o:p></o:p></span></span> </div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="color: #001320; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">I have been judged by several christians, because of things I post on facebook. I am told that I am a false teacher and too permissive in my interpretations of the Bible. I have been told that I will go to hell, because I don’t condemn sinners and those who hate God. The problem is that if you think you know me because of a couple of facebook postings, you are really missing the mark. There is so much about my character and person hood that doesn’t come out in facebook. There is so much more to me than being an outspoken christian who owns a gym. <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-49832434755651048462012-07-22T21:21:00.003-07:002012-07-22T21:22:53.026-07:00My journey with atheists and thoughts on the modern day churchI found this article in my old stuff. I wrote it about a year ago, but I still feel the same way.<br />
<br />
<br />
<div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">I am writing this piece as an attempt to explain some things in my life and gather support for a cause; the Jesus cause. I spent the last 6 months communicating with atheists on facebook and on forums on the Internet. I wanted to find out how they thought, why they denied the existence of a God, and why they were so hostile towards Christians. After communicating with them and listening to their stories it became very clear that if you were on the fence about a God or Jesus, that most often, it was a Christian that would push someone the wrong way. Believe it or not, most atheists I spoke to were very well versed in The Bible. In fact, I would say that more than half the atheists I spoke with, knew the Bible and it's history better than most people who claim to be a Christian. I realized that for most of them, they didn't have a problem with a mighty God as much as they had a problem with us. I say this because most of them were willing to admit that we don't have the answers to the universe, but they are confident it is not the God of The Bible. After listening to them, most of them would somehow admit that they couldn't believe stories about a God, because the people who said they believed in this God acted very much like they didn't. Of course, they are mostly seeing the churches that protest soldiers funerals and go on gay bashing protests, but what about the rest of us? Is the church body as a whole, on track with the message of Jesus? I guess that is for each person to decide as we see experiences and tell ourselves different stories about those experiences. Nonetheless, here is my take.</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span class="fbUnderline" style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>We are all children of the empire</strong></span></div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"></div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">Imagine the average youth group, in the average church, on the average Sunday. Imagine you came to visit my church in Bend, Oregon and visiting our youth group and having the Pastor say to you "I just can't get my kids interested in Jesus. Do you have any suggestions?"</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"></div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">How do you respond?</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">Let's start by breaking this down to what is really going on. To begin with, our church has a youth group. This is a brand new idea in church history. A luxury. Everbody in the church doesn't just meet altogether? All of the baby's adults, men, women, widows, and children aren't in the same room; but have gone to separate rooms? And there are resources for this? People and organizational structures? And a budget? Let's imagine that in this case, our youth pastor is paid a salary as most are. A church with enough resources to pay someone to oversee the students? Once again, this is brand new and almost unheard of in most of the churches in the world, and in church history; a brand new invention. This salary can be paid and this building can be built because people in the congregation have surplus. They have fed themselves and their children, bought clothes, houses, cars; and now after these expenses there is still money available. And this money is given in an act of generosity to our church, which disperses it to various places, among them, the bank account of the Pastor. In many, if not most churches in the world, immediate needs simply don't allow for such luxuries. Too many people are hungry, too many people don't have a roof, too many people are sick. So any surplus is spent immediately on the basic needs that are staring them right in the face. </div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">But this particular church is blessed; and we should be very clear about this. <span class="fbUnderline" style="text-decoration: underline;">It IS a blessing.</span>It is good. It is fortunate that this particular church doesn't have those issues. This church has enough resources to hire a Pastor, who had the resources to get training to gather these students in the student room to teach them about the way of Jesus. Many Christians around the world would simply stand in awe of THAT kind of blessing. And the students in this church, these are good kids. They are from families who just want to see their kids become good Christians. Imagine just how much is available to them. They have more at their fingertips than any generation in the history of the world. More information, more entertainment, more ideas, more ways to kill time, more options. Many of them own more than one pair of shoes. There are even some of them who have eaten at least one meal everyday of their lives. So we are talking about a minuscule minority of kids in the world. </div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">And so each week they gather to hear a talk from the Pastor. Their Pastor tells them about the Jesus Revolution. About Jesus resisting the system, and about the blood on the cross. And many of the first Christians getting arrested. About Jesus having dinner with prostitutes and tax collectors. About people sharing their possessions, about Jesus telling a man to selling everything he owned. About the uniqueness of their story, and the larger story of redemption. </div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">How do my children of the empire understand the Savior who was killed by the empire? How does my 12 year old who has never had hunger pangs for more than about an hour understand a story about a 12 year old providing fish and bread for thousands of chronically hungry people? How do my kids who are surrounded by more abundance than in any generation in the history of humanity take seriously, a messiah who said "I have been anointed to preach good news to the poor." How do they fathom that half the world is too poor to feed its kids when the church we recently left, just spent two years raising 1.2 million dollars to build a new front entrance? Families were losing jobs and homes. Marriages were failing from the economic stress and this church felt that the best use of it's resources was to build a nice new entrance to the church?! </div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"></div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">So we gather. We sing. We hear a talk from our Pastor. And then we all get back in the car with our families and go home. </div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"></div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">When we leave our church in Bend, we pass a Walmart which is across the street from the Albertson's, which is next to the Shari's, that is across the street from the Furniture Outlet.</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">We just listened to a message in Church about a "Jesus" who lived among the under-privileged and poor. </div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">Sometimes we get on the highway and get off a couple of miles down the road. There is a shopping center that has a Best Buy, and a Jamba Juice, and a Ross. A Home Depot, a Food 4 Less, and a Bed Bath and Beyond. Much like the other towns in our state and in our country. My kids all have an iPod and the music they listen to is distributed by one of five major corporations which also own the movie studios that create the movies they watch, which are also connected to the corporations that make the food they eat and the commercials they watch. Which also have significant ties to the clothes they wear and the cell phones they own and the ringtones on the cell phones. The ringtone by the artist that is signed by the record label, that is owned by the same company that owns the cell phone company and the advertising agency that announced the artist's new album. Which is owned by the same company that owns the beverage company in whose advertisement, the artist appeared, drinking that particular beverage. Singing the song that is now a ringtone on the students cell phone, that they purchased at the mall across the street from the Olive Garden, next to the home depot, on the other side of the starbucks. </div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"></div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">The garage door goes up. The car goes in. And the garage door goes down. </div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">And for most of us, that's it! That is the extent of our faith in action.</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">This is the revolution?!?!</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">This is what Jesus had in mind?</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">And so the youth Pastor turns to you and says again. "I just can't get my kids interested in Jesus." DO you have any suggestions?</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">What do you say?</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">How do you respond? </div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"></div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">I do not have the answer. This is something I have struggled with for some time now. Since I do not yet have an answer, I choose to take steps that I believe are aligned with what Jesus would have me do. I take my children to the homeless shelter every Saturday. We feed the residents food we brought and prepared, then we show them a movie. Does it make difference? Does it win souls for the kingdom? I don't know. I do it because I want my children to see that not everyone has been blessed the way we have. I do it because I hope that my children will learn to look beyond themselves and strive to help others, as they grow into adults. I do it because I want my children to be able to relate to a "Jesus" that came to preach to the poor.</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"></div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">My wife and I send our kids on mission trips. Does it make a difference? Aer they winning souls for the kingdom? I don't know. I just hope that by them being in poor countries and using whatever resources they have to help others, that they will learn to appreciate what they have and not become so entitled that they never help other people because they believe that everything they have is "theirs." I hope that when they return to America, the land of over indulgence, that they will use their resources to help other people.</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">Will my plan work? I am not sure. I can say, that I am going to do whatever I can to teach my children about the "Jesus" revolution, in spite of the fact that we live in an "empire."</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">I borrowed some insights from an author named Rob Bell to write this. I related everything to my own experiences and I waited to the end to share this because I know Mr. Bell raises a lot of controversy. He does not "fit in" with the modern day church as it is defined by society. He goes against what a lot of church's in our day proclaim. Funny, so did Jesus, and Paul, and John the baptist.</div>Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-83839709477526178622012-07-19T10:44:00.000-07:002012-07-19T10:44:35.292-07:00Should homosexuals burn in hell?To address this question I first want to cover a Jewish concept called "binding and loosing." Jesus said "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." --Matthew 16:19; 18:18<br />
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For me, believing in the Bible is very easy. Actually applying the Bible is very tricky and sometimes quite difficult. The concept of binding and loosing was something the Jewish rabbi's did with scripture. They would sometimes lock themselves in quiet rooms for days and sometimes weeks to wrestle with interpretations of scriptures and their applications to the current day and culture. When the rabbi's would "bind" a scripture, they were declaring that after careful study and application, that scripture still held meaning for that day. If they were to "loose" a scripture, then they were declaring that although that scripture had meaning in the past, it did not have the same application or meaning that day. <br />
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Jesus gave us some examples of binding and loosing in His ministry. He binds murder to include anger.(Matt 5:22) He binds adultery to include divorce/remarriage.(Matt 5:32) He binds/extends the commandment on loving neighbor to loving enemies. (Matt 5:44) But he looses Sabbath-keeping so that one might harvest grain by hand and even heal people.(Matt 12:12) He also looses the restrictions against idolatry by allowing tax payments to Caesar who considered himself a god. (Mark 12:17) Make no mistake, Jesus was a first century, Jewish Rabbi and He did what rabbis did—they took the law and applied it to daily practical issues of morality—loosening the grip of some rules and tightening and extending others. He never disposed of the law, but <i>applied</i> it to real-life through the process of <i>binding and loosing.</i><br />
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Jesus said "I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven." Since that was the statement right before he discussed binding and loosing, I think we can say in context, that He was giving us permission to bind and loose the scriptures. Some (particularly Protestants) will say that Jesus was giving permission to bind and loose, only to "the Church." If we go along with this, we have to recognize that "the church" did not exist yet, in the way it does today. But even if we do accept that, which Church? The Catholic Church? The Mormon Church? The Baptists? Which doctrine gets the keys. According to wikipedia there may be as many as 38,000 Christian denominations. I have seen other authors cite as many as 130,000. So which Church do we give the authority to "bind and loose?" If we go out of context of the scripture and look at the actual concept of binding and loosing, we find that it was not done by the church, but by individual rabbi's. Each rabbi would bind and loose certain scriptures and this was called their "yoke." It was list of interpretations that the rabbi held, that he would teach his students. For instance one rabbi might say you could walk one mile on the sabbath and not violate the law. And then another rabbi would say you could walk 3 miles and not violate the sabbath. Both ideas were a part of that rabbi's teachings, or his yoke. <br />
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Now that you understand what binding and loosing is, let's see what we can do with it today. I want ot take a bold step and attempt to apply binding and loosing to homosexuality. Before you condemn me to hell for eternity, for twisting God's word to suit my own needs, please hear me out. It makes perfect sense to me, why God would forbid homosexuality 6000 years ago. In the days of Moses, the world's population was very low. And we know that the population of the Israelites was around only 1.5 million. If God wanted them to increase their population, they would not be able to be "fruitful and multiply" if they were in homosexual relationships. Since then, the population of "God's people" is estimated to be at around 2 billion people. That is one third of the population. We have defiantely been "fruitful and multiplying." We have populated the earth as God intended. So do we still need the decree that homosexuality be banned? Especially when we consider how many parts of the world are suffering from a lack of resources. If we are so over-populated in some parts of the world that there are not enough resources for everyone, should we still be being fruitful and multiplying? Is it possible that we can "loosen" the restriction on homosexuality based on what is happening in our world today?<br />
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This is the point where condemnation comes flying my way, especially from my fundamentalist brethren. Let me point out that I am not trying to "re-write" the Bible or God's word. I am simply trying to do what rabbi's have done for hundreds of years, what Jesus did, and what Jesus gave us permission to do. And even if we all decide that we cannot under any circumstances "loose" homosexuality, let me explain what I believe my "job" is, as a christian. I believe that it is my job to lovingly and gently bring them to the cross. And then leave them there, and let the Holy Spirit do, whatever He will. It is not for me to change the heart of a person. I find it to be the height of arrogance, when a christian believes that they are going to change someone's heart and bring them to God. And please consider how many homosexuals are scared to death to enter a church because of the abuse they have received from christians. Shouldn't we do everything we can to encourage them to come to Jesus, "as they are" and let Him change their hearts as He sees fit? <br />
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Please consider my words, consider the scriptures I have provided, consider your heart when you speak to someone about our Father, and consider your mission as a christian.<br />
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in His grip,<br />
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VictorVictorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-83800488433433784562012-06-09T10:52:00.000-07:002012-06-09T10:52:16.260-07:00What I think about hell.<span style="font-family: Calibri;">In the Old Testament, the scriptures about hell are very vague and brief. They were usually used in poems. The commentary on what happens after a person dies isn’t very clearly defined at all. I have been looking and can’t find overly specific details. For whatever reasons, the details on who goes where, when, how, and for how long, simply weren’t things the Hebrew writers were terribly concerned about. </span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Calibri;">In the New Testament, I have found the word for “hell” used about 12 times, almost always by Jesus. I didn’t count when different writers wrote about the same instance hell was being used so you may count more, if you count every instance that it is repeated by different writers. The greek word for “hell” that gets translated into English is “Gehenna.” Gehenna was an actual valley just south of Jerusalem. It was literally, the city dump. Since it was the dump, there was always a fire going, to burn the trash. Wild animals would fight for leftover scraps of anything they could get. The poor people would often be there, scavenging for anything they could find that someone may have thrown out, that could be useful to them. Of course the poor are not happy and if you are digging through the dump, you are probably crying. You are most definitely, not living your best days. So you get a visual of a place where the fire never goes out and there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. The people listening to Jesus would have known exactly what He was talking about. James used “Gehenna” once when talking about the power of the tongue but all other mentions of Gehenna were from Jesus. </span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Calibri;">So, let’s go over the times Jesus uses the word Gehenna. In Matthew 5:29 He says “<span class="woj">It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.</span> <span class="woj"><sup><span style="font-size: x-small;">30 </span></sup>And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.” In Mathew 10 and Luke 12 he says “<sup><span style="font-size: x-small;">28 </span></sup>do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” In Mathew 23 he says <sup><span style="font-size: x-small;">15 </span></sup>“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.” In Matthew 18 and Mark 9 he says <sup><span style="font-size: x-small;">9 “</span></sup>And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.”</span></span><br />
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<span class="woj"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">And that’s it. Those are all the mentions of hell from Jesus. There are two other words that are sometimes used for hell. Tartarus and Hades. In 2 Peter chapter 2, Peter refers to the underworld. It was borrowed from Greek myth and was a place where the demigods were judged. Hades is basically the Greek version of Sheol (the Hebrew word for hell). Hades is used in Revelation 1, 6, and 20 and in Acts 2. This by the way is a quote from Psalm 16. Jesus uses Hades in Matthew 11 and Luke 10. He says “You will go down to Hades.” In Matthew 16 He says “The gates of Hades will not overcome it.” He also uses it in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16. </span></span><br />
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<span class="woj"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">And that concludes all mentions or likenesses of the word hell in the New Testament. Anything people have ever said about hell, they got from those few, obscure verses. For the most part, the ideas we get from hell are held over from primitive, mythic religions that used fear and punishment to control people. But obviously, we have evolved from all of those outdated beliefs, right? <o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
<span class="woj"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Something that I find very significant is that all the mentions Jesus made of hell; he didn’t use hell to jam up the non-believers. He told the city of Capernaum; they would go to Hades, where the demigods are judged, but other than that he wasn’t overly harsh with His use of the word hell. Except with one particular group of people. There was a group of people that Jesus threatened with hell, more than once. That group was the Pharisees. The so-called religious experts of the day. The people who were convinced that when it came to heaven, they were in. It seems to me that Jesus, repeatedly informed them that they were “not” IN, and the people they were condemning, were going to be ok. I find that very significant because in today’s “church” people are usually condemning non-believers to hell. Since we don’t see Jesus ever doing that, I think Christians should be cautious in how they wield that sword. Especially since, “they” are the type of people Jesus threatened with hell. Not the non-believers. </span></span><br />
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<span class="woj"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">So the next question would be, “does Victor believe in hell?” The answer is yes. I believe in hell because I see it every day. My wife and I are foster parents. We recently had a child in our home that had been sexually abused. She would stop going to the bathroom in the evening. Then when it was time for bed, she would crawl into bed and immediately pee the bed. So we started restricting her drinks in the evening. To compensate for this she would take a plastic grocery bag and pee in it throughout the day. She was saving it for bedtime. We also had a little boy who had been sexually abused. One day after he first moved in with us, he came out of the bathroom and had smeared poop on himself. I went in the bathroom and it was everywhere. This is not uncommon in foster care. There are usually about 500,000 children in foster care in America. 75% of children in the foster care system have been sexually abused in some way. <br />
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Do I believe in hell? Absolutely, I do. </span></span><br />
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<span class="woj"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">In the world, there is estimated to be 2.5 million people who are stuck in the human sex industry. Most of them are women and children. Portland, Oregon is considered one of the main hubs in America for human trafficking and has the highest rate of human trafficking, per capita, of any city in America. We don’t hear about it as much in America because our leaders want us to feel like we are “safe” and don’t want to admit that something as horrific and disgusting as human trafficking, occurs as often as it does in America. Organizations like Operation Ransom work to fight against human trafficking and have rescued over 87,000 women and children since they were created. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span><br />
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<span class="woj"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Do I believe in hell? Absolutely, I do. </span></span><br />
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<span class="woj"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">I believe in “two” hells. There is the hell on earth that if you are willing to look at, you can easily find. We know this hell exists and we can support it with videos, eye witness testimony, police records, and real concrete data. Then there is the hell that exists after we die. This hell, we know very little about. We have no eye witness testimonies, no scientific data, no records of any sort that give any specific details on exactly what takes place or what happens, or long it lasts. As a Christian, I choose to focus on the hells on earth. The hells I can see, touch, experience, prove, and identify with. <o:p></o:p></span></span><br />
<span class="woj"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">An observation that I have made in the Christian community is that the people that focus on the “hells’ on earth now, don’t usually pay too much mind to the “hells” after we die. They seem to be so occupied with helping real people, in real danger, today, that they just don’t seem to have the energy to compare, criticize, and critique how other people live their lives. On the other hand, the people I see that have a condemning and judgmental view of who will be in hell after this life, don’t really get involved in the “hells” that occur on this earth. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Calibri;"><span class="woj">But again, that’s just my observations.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Calibri;"><span class="woj">So, what will you do, now? Will you focus on the "hells" later or the "hells" now? At the very least, hopefully, you will choose both, if you are a christian. If you are not a christian, I am certain you can agree with me at least in regards to the hells on earth we see everyday. If you are interested in being a foster parent, send me a message. I can help and guide you. If you want to help fight against the human trafficking industry go to the <a href="http://www.operationransom.com/" target="_blank">operation ransom</a> website and help. You can also come to my gym and buy some of their retail. We do not keep any of the money. It all goes back to supporting their mission. </span></span>Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com14tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-50230524304545199342012-06-06T13:18:00.001-07:002012-06-06T13:28:24.630-07:00Understanding what Jesus said about divorce<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">This past Sunday, my Pastor preached on family and for about 10 minutes, he discussed divorce. He was talking about abuse in the marriage and he said "you need to protect yourself above all else." Then he went on to say that you should seperate for awhile, but do everything possible to not divorce. Then he left it at that and moved on. I was thinking to myself "how long should one stay seperated for?" I have known several women in abusive marriages and as christians we should always try to save the marriage but what if the man is unrelelnting? How long should a woman stay seperated? I couldn't stop thinking about this and I ended up not paying attention to the rest of the service. I kept wondering if Jesus expected women to stay in an abusive marriage. So I went to the internet to do some further study and her eis what I found, and what I think. </span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Calibri;">“Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. But anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. “ Deuteronomy 24 gave us some of the earliest records of divorce. In Matthew 5: 32 Jesus said “<span class="woj">But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”</span><o:p></o:p></span></div><span style="font-family: Calibri;">How many people have had this verse quoted to them in a way that caused them pain? </span><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Is it possible that there is more about what Jesus was saying about divorce than what we find in the scriptures? <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Maybe there is more to what it means to Jesus’ followers in the year 2012?<o:p></o:p></span></div><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Divorce in the greek is apoluo. It means to loose, or unbind from, to send away. The roots are not in a “mutual” parting but in “one” unbinding, loosing, or sending another away. In that day, it was always the man who divorced his wife. I know it’s not right, but it was 3000 to 4000 years ago. </span><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">When Jesus used divorce, there was a huge debate going around the rabbis of His time. The debate was in regards to the verse in Deuteronomy 24:5. But that passage was based on a culture that had conditions, that were not in the same context as Jesus day. First of all, 3000-4000 years ago in the middle east, a wife was treated like a piece of property. The husband could get rid of her at any time, for any reason. If the wife was sent away, she would have no rights, no protection, no dignity, and no provisions. She literally had nothing. She was a “sent away” woman in a primitive and barbaric world where she had no way to provide for herself. So unfortunately, when most women were sent away they ended up being prostitutes. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Now, here comes the book of Deuteronomy. Here comes Moses. Moses never condoned divorce. He never said it was a good thing. He only acknowledged the reality of divorce. So Moses said that men must give their wives a certificate of divorce if they sent their wife away. (Deut 24) I want to point out two things about this “new” concept of giving the woman a certificate of divorce. The first thing, is that if a man had to go through the hassle of acquiring the materials for, writing out, and proclaiming the certificate, that maybe he would reconsider. Remember writing materials were quite expensive and not always readily available like they are today. The second thing it did, was it “restored” the virtue, the dignity, and honor of the woman, in a culture in which she would normally have none of. Now, I know a lot of my friends will say “Yes, that’s great but it is still barbaric and horrible.” I would agree. However, it was a huge step in that place, in that time, for women’s rights. For today’s standards in 2012 that would still be a terrible way to treat women. But in the days of Deuteronomy it was a very radical, empowering, pro-woman legislation, that was a progressive and revolutionary step forward. She was no longer just a cast off of society. She now had a legal “right”, she had dignity and honor like she did before. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Now, let’s go forward to Jesus’ day. Right before the “Jesus” movement, there were two great rabbis that stood out from the others. They were the “Lady Gaga” of their time, if you will. One of the rabbis name was hillel. The other was Shammai. These two rabbis dominated the scene in regards to how you were supposed to follow God. These guys were so huge that they each had their own schools of teaching. Hillel usually was a little more liberal or permissive in his views on scripture. Shammai, on the other hand was a little more restrictive. You could say that he was a little more on the conservative side of the scriptures. These two rabbis had different interpretations of Deuteronomy 24. This was very common in that day. In fact, a the way a rabbi interpreted the scriptures was called his “yoke.” Verse 24 says that a man can write a certificate of divorce if his wife becomes displeasing to him. So the next question would be, “What exactly is ‘displeasing’ mean?” The phrase “indecent” was translated from the word ervah dabar which means “nakedness of a thing.” That is what the phrase indecent really meant. So, the discussion was what was “nakedness of a thing” all about? Shammai focused on the “nakedness”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>and Hillel focused on the “of a thing” part. So Shammai stated that a man could not divorce his wife unless he found out she was having an affair, because he has found in her, indecency in a matter. But Hillel said that he may divorce her, even if she burns his food, because he has found in her, indecency, in a matter. Normally, Shamai was less permissive, but not in the case of divorce. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">First of all, some of you, who have been through a divorce, and some Christian beat you over the head with Matthew 5: 31,32. They might have told you that you were not following God’s will for your life. But if they didn’t explain the entire context of the debate that was happening in that culture, at that time, in which Jesus was speaking to, they could have hurt you. And even though they were “using” the scriptures to correct you, they were “wielding” that sword very inappropriately. When Jesus used the word divorce, he was going into one of the most controversial subjects of debate, of his day. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">The question of divorce is “Who is Jesus going to side with?” Hillel or Shammai? Sometimes people think that Jesus just made everything up because He was God. This goes hand in hand with the notion that God just defies science to make things happen, as opposed to just using a higher level of science that we don’t understand. Jesus didn’t just make this stuff up. He was a first century, Jewish rabbi, who lived within a particular time and culture. When Jesus used the word divorce, He was going with the interpretations of Shammai. Jesus said that a man can send her away if she has committed adultery. But if she hasn’t then he cannot. And if he does, he must properly give her a certificate. Which means he must honor and giver dignity in the process. He is not allowed, at any point, treat her like a piece of property. You do NOT send a woman away because she burnt your eggs. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">So in regards to Jesus and His position on divorce, He is saying “You don’t treat a woman like that.” Hillel is too rigid on this one. Shammai at least gives the woman her dignity. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">For thousands of years, people throughout history have wrestled with the ugliness, complexity, and despair of divorce. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Paul states that if a non believer lives with a believer And the non believer leaves, the believer can let them go. So he expands on what Jesus was saying. But he didn’t stop there. He kept going. We went on to say “because God has called us to live in peace.”<br />
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I think that is huge. Paul isn’t just adding “one more” justified reason for divorce. If that was the case, he wouldn’t have gone on to talk about living in peace. That opens up a much bigger “grounds” for divorce. So, I think a valid question can be asked. That question is “Is there hope for peace in this marriage?” </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Let me say that as a Christian, I think we should always seek to reconcile. No matter what the circumstances, I think we should always try to save the marriage. But that takes two. What if the other person is unwilling? What if the abuse continues? What if the abuser refuses to stop the abuse? Some would say that there should just be a time of separation. OK, but for how long? 6 months? 1 year? 3 years? How long does a person have to stay separated in “limbo” waiting for the other person to come around? Is that an example of living in peace? I don’t think it is. Is there a point, when staying together is actually more destructive to the peace in the family? Because God calls us to live in peace. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Are there some marriages, that maybe they just have too much junk, too much hurt, too much disappointment? And while we as Christians believe in healing, we believe in miracles, we believe in the power of God to change hearts, we believe that some things can be raised from the dead, perhaps sometimes, things DO die. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Let me again be very clear. We should always be about fidelity, reconciliation, honoring the vows, the commitment, as far as it is possible. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">My wife and I own a gym together and we have a couple thousand members. Most of these members become friends with us. We do things with them, we get to know their family. I have seen couples be together, and there was never peace. There was constant strife, arguing, pitting the kids against the other spouse, etc. Then they got a divorce. We were sad for them. But then, sometimes, both of them re-married. They had both created warm and loving marriages the second time around. There was finally “peace.” Are we to assume that God wasn’t pleased with this? I don’t think so. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">We should always be first and foremost, interested in reconciliation and recovery for the marriage. But then, we add to that, “peace.” As much as it is possible. So live with the profound respect for the sanctity of marriage and at the same time, with the reality and the honesty that sometimes, things just die and you have to call it what it is. </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">The implications of this can definitely go on, but I try not to have articles become too long or involved so I don’t lose the reader. In addition to that, the longer my articles are, the more chances for grammar errors I have. </span><span style="font-family: Wingdings; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-char-type: symbol; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-symbol-font-family: Wingdings;"><span style="mso-char-type: symbol; mso-symbol-font-family: Wingdings;">J</span></span><span style="font-family: Calibri;"> </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">I want to end with this final point. I have seen several “well meaning” Christians wound people with scriptures like Matthew Chapter 5. But as I stated earlier, without full knowledge of the teachings of Hillel and Shamai, they would be missing over half of the context. It is very difficult for us to sometimes have a full understanding of the details of some of the scriptures. As Christians, should we not be careful and guarded with “our” interpretations of the scriptures? Because after all, they are just “our” interpretations, right? </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Please look for my next blog which will cover my thoughts on this idea. “With over 130,000 different Christian doctrines, how do we know which ones are the correct interpretations of God’s will?”<o:p></o:p></span></div><span style="font-family: Calibri;">As always, thanks for reading,</span><o:p><span style="font-family: Calibri;"> </span></o:p><br />
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Victor<o:p></o:p></span></div>Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-30321151944275490302012-05-31T11:41:00.000-07:002012-05-31T11:41:09.763-07:00My son told me he doesn't think he is a christian anymoreLast year my oldest son decided he wanted to go on a foreign exchange trip to Finland. Finland is a very secular country, as they have very few churches compared to America. In addition, his host families weren't religious so going to church was very difficult for him. Over the course of the last year, I have noticed that he was talking less and less about God. So today, I was talking to him on facebook and decided to ask him how his faith was doing. Here was our conversation.<br />
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My son: Ehhh, I have to be honest, I don't really consider myself a Christian anymore.<br />
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Me: Why?<br />
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My son: I began to question my faith like you said, because blind faith is no faith at all. And I realized that all of my reasons for believing were based off of you. I don't have any reason of my own to believe.<br />
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Me: What are you going to tell mom? So I guess you aren't worried about me getting mad at you? Since you are telling me. <br />
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My son: I don't know, I was just gonna keep it to myself and try to get a Sunday shift at the duck store so I wouldn't have to go to church. Well I'd hope that you'd be accepting and understanding and try to teach me, or teach me to teach myself before you got mad at me. I feel like I can trust you with anything and I want to have a relationship with you where I can tell you anything.<br />
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Me: Son, I am not mad at you. I don't know exactly what happens when we die. I believe that God puts everyone right where He wants them. If He wants you to be a christian, you will be a christian. If He wants you to be an agnostic or atheist, guess what? You will be an atheist or agnostic. <br />
<div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message">One thing is for sure. Our time on this earth is short. You are my oldest son and mean more to me than you will ever know and I am not going to waste a single second, being angry with you for what you believe. I have always taught you to think for yourself and "question" everything you hear. How could I condemn you now, just because you came to a different conclusion than me. That would make me a huge hypocrite. <div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message">I love you very much now. And I always will. You will always be my son. I will always be your father. And I will always love you.</div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message"> </div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message">He had to go, so that was the end of the discussion. I am sure we will have more. I will admit, that at first, my heart started to beat a little faster. I initially felt a little fear about what might happen to my son. But then, I remembered everything I have been researching and writing about. Do I think God will torture my son in hell, forever? No. Not at all. The Bible says that God loves my son more than I do. If that is true, then He would never do that to my son. </div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message"> </div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message">I am not sure exactly what I am going to do at this point. However, I can tell you what I am NOT going to do.</div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message"> </div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message">I am NOT going to let him feel, for one second, that I love him any less.</div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message"> </div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message">I am NOT going to judge him or make him feel condemned in any way. </div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message"> </div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message">I am NOT going try to "pressure" him to come back to his faith. I have always taught my children to question everything. </div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message"> </div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message">I am NOT going to let a single "well meaning" christian try to scare him back into his faith. If his faith was ever genuine, it will come back stronger than it ever was. </div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message"> </div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message">The only thing I am confident I will do, is maintain my relationship with my son where he feels that I love him unconditionally, and he can talk to me about anything. </div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message"> </div><div class="fbChatMessage fsm direction_ltr" data-jsid="message">And of course, I will pray for his wisdom and guidance through life. </div></div>Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com19tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-28358891553445585342012-05-22T17:54:00.003-07:002012-05-23T09:16:46.101-07:00What's wrong with christians these days?I am writing this piece as an attempt to explain some things in my life and gather support for a cause; the Jesus cause. I spent the last 11 months communicating with atheists on facebook and on forums on the internet. I wanted to find out how they thought, why they denied the existance of a God, and why they were so hostile towards Christians. After communicating with them and listening to their stories it became very clear that if you were on the fence about a God or Jesus, that most often, it was a Christian that would push someone the wrong way. Believe it or not, most atheists I spoke to were very well versed in The Bible. In fact, I would say that more thasn half the atheists I spoke with, knew the Bible and it's history better than most people who claim to be a Christian. I realized that for several of them, they didn't have a problem with a mighty God as much as they had a problem with us. I say this because most of them were willing to admit that we don't have the answers to the universe, but they are confident it is not the God of The Bible. After listening to them, most of them would somehow admit that they couldn't believe stories about a God, because the people who said they believed in this God acted very much like they didn't. Of course, they are mostly seeing the churches that protest soldiers funerals and go on gay bashing protests, but what about the rest of us? Is the church body as a whole, on track with the message of Jesus? I guess that is for each person to decide as we see experiences and tell ourselves different stories about those experiences. Nonetheless, here is my take.<br />
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<span class="fbUnderline"><strong>We are all children of the empire</strong></span><br />
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Imagine the average youth group, in the average church, on the average Sunday. Imagine you came to visit my church in Bend, Oregon and visiting our youth group and having the Pastor say to you "I just can't get my kids interested in Jesus. Do you have any suggestions?"<br />
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How do you respond?<br />
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Let's start by breaking this down to what is really going on. To begin with, our church has a youth group. This is a brand new idea in church history. A luxury. Everybody in the church doesn't just meet altogether? All of the baby's adults, men, women, widows, and children aren't in the same room; but have gone to separate rooms? And there are resources for this? People and organizational structures? And a budget? Let's imagine that in this case, our youth pastor is paid a salary as most are. A church with enough resources to pay someone to oversee the students? Once again, this is brand new and almost unheard of in most of the churches in the world, and in church history; a brand new invention. This salary can be paid and this building can be built because people in the congregation have surplus. They have fed themselves and their children, bought clothes, houses, cars; and now after these expenses there is still money available. And this money is given in an act of generosity to our church, which disperses it to various places, among them, the bank account of the Pastor. In many, if not most churches in the world, immediate needs simply don't allow for such luxuries. Too many people are hungry, too many people don't have a roof, too many people are sick. So any surplus is spent immediately on the basic needs that are staring them right in the face. <br />
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But this particular church is blessed; and we should be very clear about this. <span class="fbUnderline">It IS a blessing.</span> It is good. It is fortunate that this particular church doesn't have those issues. This church has enough resources to hire a Pastor, who had the resources to get training to gather these students in the student room to teach them about the way of Jesus. Many Christians around the world would simply stand in awe of THAT kind of blessing. And the students in this church, these are good kids. They are from families who just want to see their kids become good Christians. Imagine just how much is available to them. They have more at their fingertips than any generation in the history of the world. More information, more entertainment, more ideas, more ways to kill time, more options. Many of them own more than one pair of shoes. There are even some of them who have eaten at least one meal everyday of their lives. So we are talking about a miniscule minority of kids in the world. <br />
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And so each week they gather to hear a talk from the Pastor. Their Pastor tells them about the Jesus Revolution. About Jesus resisting the system, and about the blood on the cross. And many of the first Christians getting arrested. About Jesus having dinner with prostitutes and tax collectors. About people sharing their possessions, about Jesus telling a man to selling everything he owned. About the uniqueness of their story, and the larger story of redemption. <br />
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How do my children of the empire understand the Savior who was killed by the empire? How does my 12 year old who has never had hunger pangs for more than about an hour understand a story about a 12 year old providing fish and bread for thousands of chronically hungry people? How do my kids who are surrounded by more abundance than in any generation in the history of humanity take seriously, a messiah who said "I have been anointed to preach good news to the poor." How do they fathom that half the world is too poor to feed its kids when the church we recently left, just spent two years raising 1.2 million dollars to build a new front entrance? Families were losing jobs and homes. Marriages were failing from the economic stress and this church felt that the best use of it's resources was to build a nice new entrance to the church?! <br />
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So we gather. We sing. We hear a talk from our Pastor. And then we all get back in the car with our families and go home. <br />
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When we leave our church in Bend, we pass a Walmart which is across the street from the Albertson's, which is next to the Shari's, that is across the street from the Furniture Outlet.<br />
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We just listened to a message in Church about a "Jesus" who lived among the under-privileged and poor. <br />
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><em><strong>I just don't think that as Jesus was dying on the cross He</strong></em><br />
<em><strong> thought to Himself "It's ok that I am dying, because one</strong></em><br />
<em><strong>day they will have huge, million dollar facilities and </strong></em><br />
<em><strong>wonderful multi media presentations every Sunday."</strong></em> </td></tr>
</tbody></table><br />
Sometimes we get on the highway and get off a couple of miles down the road. There is a shopping center that has a Best Buy, and a Jamba Juice, and a Ross. A Home Depot, a Food 4 Less, and a Bed Bath and Beyond. Much like the other towns in our state and in our country. My kids all have an iPod and the music they listen to is distributed by one of five major corporations which also own the movie studios that create the movies they watch, which are also connected to the corporations that make the food they eat and the commercials they watch. Which also have significant ties to the clothes they wear and the cell phones they own and the ringtones on the cell phones. The ringtone by the artists that is signed by the record label, that is owned by the same company that owns the cell phone company and the advertising agency that announced the artist's new album. Which is owned by the same company that owns the beverage company in whose advertisement, the artist appeared, drinking that particular beverage. Singing the song that is now a ringtone on the students cell phone, that they purchased at the mall across the street from the Olive Garden, next to the home depot, on the other side of the starbucks. <br />
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The garage door goes up. The car goes in. And the garage door goes down. <br />
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And for most of us, that's it! That is the extent of our faith in action.<br />
<br />
This is the revolution?!?!<br />
<br />
This is what Jesus had in mind?<br />
<br />
And so the youth Pastor turns to you and says again. "I just can't get my kids interested in Jesus." DO you have any suggestions?<br />
<br />
What do you say?<br />
<br />
How do you respond? <br />
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I do not have the answer. This is something I have struggled with for some time now. Since I do not yet have an answer, I choose to take steps that I believe are aligned with what Jesus would have me do. I take my children to the homeless shelter every Saturday. We feed the residents food we brought and prepared, then we show them a movie. Does it make difference? Does it win souls for the kingdom? I don't know. I do it because I want my children to see that not everyone has been blessed the way we have. I do it because I hope that my children will learn to look beyond themselves and strive to help others, as they grow into adults. I do it because I want my children to be able to relate to a "Jesus" that came to preach to the poor.<br />
<br />
My wife and I send our kids on mission trips. Does it make a difference? Are they winning souls for the kingdom? I don't know. I just hope that by them being in poor countries and using whatever resources they have to help others, that they will learn to appreciate what they have and not become so entitled that they never help other people because they believe that everything they have is "theirs." I hope that when they return to America, the land of over indulgence, that they will use their resources to help other people.<br />
<br />
Will my plan work? I am not sure. I can say, that I am going to do whatever I can to teach my children about the "Jesus" revolution, in spite of the fact that we live in an "empire."<br />
<br />
I borrowed some insights from an author named Rob Bell to write this. I related everything to my own experiences and I waited to the end to share this because I know Mr. Bell raises a lot of controversy. He does not "fit in" with the modern day church as it is defined by society. He goes against what a lot of church's in our day proclaim. Funny, so did Jesus, and Paul, and John the baptist.Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-14176969473861625492012-05-15T08:34:00.000-07:002012-05-15T08:34:44.986-07:00Kicked out of my atheist group :(Last night I received this letter from the atheist club I was a member of. The names have been changed to protect the innocent. <br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">Hello Victor,<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">I have been asked by several (actually more than several) Atheists members to ask you to please not attend any further group meetup events. The reason for this is not anything personal against you, but because this is a meetup group for atheists and freethinkers to meet and chat and feel comfortable. This is the only place in Central Oregon for atheists and freethinkers to meet and socialize, whereas there are tens, probably hundreds of churches for religious people to meet each other and socialize. They feel uncomfortable by your presence, and by the fact they are aware you write about your experiences with the group. They know that your primary purpose for attending is to obtain material for your blog, and to witness to us. You have even said you do not care about what we say or think. They have asked me this over quite a long period of time, and I do not want to ignore their wishes any longer. The responsibility of the leadership of this meetup is to the members; the atheists, freethinkers, agnostics., and their needs and wishes. I would not want to see any member stop attending our meetups. Again, please do not take this personally, as it is not intended as such. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">Thank you, <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">Betty</span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">COA co-organizer</span><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">My response:</span><br />
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">Dear Betty,</span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">I completely understand that some people may feel uncomfortable with my presence at the meetings. In my time with our group I have learned the abuses and the hurt, that several people have been through at the hands of "christians." And although I will absolutely honor the groups wishes I would like to make some parting comments to some of the statements you made. </span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">Yes it is true that I wrote articles for my blogs about my experiences with your group. A couple of members read my blogs and enjoyed their message. All of my blogs were messages to the christian community about being more open minded towards atheists. From my experiences with the group I stood in front of my entire church congregation and told them why we don't need "In God we trust" on our money and the 10 commandments on our public buildings. I explained my experiences and told them how many things we had been wrong about. I encouraged everyone at my church to be willing to "get to know" atheists before judging them, as I had done in the past. For all intent purposes, I was on "your" side. I was trying to change the minds of my christian friends and encouraged them to be more open minded. The members of the group that read my blogs saw this intention, and they appreciated it. Some of them commented on my facebook pages, and some commented directly on the blog their appreciation and encouraged me to continue. </span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">In regards to the comment that I have said that I don't care what you say or think, that is simply not true. That was a night when Ben was describing the abuse he endured as a child at the hands of religion. He was describing how religion was forced down his throat and his childhood was ruined because of it. Then he turned to me and asked if I wanted to hear the details of his deconversion from christinaity. I told him no. He was clearly "taken back" by what I said and said "What? What do you mean you don't want to hear it? I can't believe you would say that?" I thought I had explained that the reason christians want to hear his story is because they have hopes of finding "something" in the story that they can use to try to convince him to come back to the faith. I told him I had no interest in "converting" him back to the faith and therefore, I didn't need to hear the details of his story. He was already clearly upset by the parts of his story that he already told, and I felt that he would only get more upset as he went into the details. I never said "I don't care what anyone says or thinks." If I didn't care how the group felt, then I wouldn't waste my time coming to the meetings in the first place. </span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">I never spoke about God, Jesus, or the Bible, unless I was asked specific questions. And I was careful to never speak in a tone or even a suggestion of why anyone needs to accept Jesus, or God's redeeming love. I was always respectful of everyone. Even when I was ridiculed and made fun of by one of the members, I never retaliated or struck back. I tried to only attend meetings once a month to once every other month. The group description says that occasional visits from religious people are ok. You may want to consider re-wording that or taking it out altogether.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">I am not angry or upset but I feel that the group wants to isolate itself, and alienate people who don't think like they do. That is something the group has accused the christian community of doing and should be considered. I am not saying that is wrong to do, but perhaps the group description should reflect that. And "freethinkers" usually come from the premise of being open minded and tolerant of others beliefs, or lack of beliefs. </span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">I sincerely apologize for making people in the group feel uncomfortable as it was not my intention. </span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;">Victor </span>Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com180tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-73581668836386061592012-05-05T10:51:00.000-07:002012-05-05T10:51:22.962-07:00Evolution and the Bible........together?In my late night studies of the Bible, it has been made aware to me that perhaps the Bible gives some indication of some sort of "evolution."<br />
<br />
In Genesis 1:21 it says "So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good."<br />
<br />
Then in Genesis 1:25 it says "God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good."<br />
<br />
The main thing I noticed was the word "created" being used in Genesis 1:21 and "made" being used in 1:25. It may not seem like a big deal but those two words have completely different implications. Let me give you an example. Today, my wife "made" a loaf of bread for our family. She didn't "create" a loaf of bread, she "made" it. What that implies, is that she didn't "create" something from nothing. She took flour, water, salt, oil, and sugar(don't worry it was only a teaspoon of organic cane sugar) and she "made" a loaf of bread. She took different parts of food items and combined them into something completely different that has little to no resemblance of what it was two hours before she started.<br />
<br />
We do not find ANYTHING in the text of the Bible to suggest that God made each individual species separately. That came from "the church" not the The Bible.<br />
<br />
Now, I want to make this very clear. I am not saying that I prescribe to evolution. I haven't studied it long enough, but as I study it, it is raising questions about things that are considered "heresy" based on organized religion, "not" The Bible. So, at this point I am just trying to answer what I consider to be valid questions. I do not believe everything about evolution. Which is ok, because I don't believe everything I hear in church either. :) <br />
<br />
I guess at the end of the day, I am just suggesting that on this huge ball of mass called earth, that there is enough room for the ideas of the bible to exist peacefully with the ideas of evolution.Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com12tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-68602537659566287112012-05-03T08:42:00.001-07:002012-05-03T08:42:49.883-07:00Justify your God!!!!!!!!<span style="font-family: Calibri;">That was asked of me by one of my atheist buddies at my last atheist meeting. My response was “Why do you care?” <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">She said, Well if you’re going to believe in something so strongly, you have to have proof to support that belief, don’t you think? I told her that I didn’t agree with her, since “proof” is in the eye of the beholder. Two police men can walk into the same exact murder scene. One says it was a murder, the other says it was suicide. How can that be? They both have the same evidence to look at, shouldn’t they both come to the same exact conclusion since they are examining the same crime scene? No, because “evidence” is in the eye of the beholder. The way a person interprets evidence is in context to the amount of study a person puts into the field the evidence falls in. For example, if a person wants to discredit the Bible, I would ask them if they speak ancient Hebrew, Greek, and Arabic languages. I would also ask how much Judaism they have studied. If you haven’t studied any of these, how can you possibly hope to completely understand a book that was written over the course of 4,000 years, 2,000 years ago, by 44 different authors, groups of people that lived in a culture we could not possibly hope to understand? For starters, you have air conditioning. How can you possibly relate to a group of people living in the desert with no air conditioning? How can you possibly relate to a Jesus, who said I have come to feed the poor, when you have never experienced real hunger pains? By the way, “real” hunger doesn’t begin until you have been denied food for about 14 hours. The hunger you feel when you know you just ate 4-6 hours ago is the entitlement you experience because you want food all the time. (It’s true, look it up)<o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">When you try to apply science to faith, it doesn’t work because science is based on facts and evidence. Well, things we considered to be facts 150 years ago, have since been found to be wrong based on learning new things. So, some of the things we know to be “facts” today, may not be facts 150 years from now as we continue to learn.<o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">So, then she said, what about all the bad stuff in the Bible? I said, well, there is a lot of things I don’t understand about the Bible and a lot of things I don’t like. I asked her if she loved her husband and of course she said yes. Then I said, does he ever do anything bad? Maybe, lose his temper? Maybe not always treat you the way you want to be treated? She said of course. I told her that by the same logic she wants me to condemn God for, she should also condemn her husband. I said, I cant explain everything in the Bible. NOBODY can. I have to believe that God wanted it that way, otherwise, the Bible would have just been a small tri fold brochure with some simple rules for getting to heaven. <o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">You may not like the comparison or even agree with it and that is ok. I don’t believe I need to understand everything about the Bible to believe in God. And even if God did some things that “I” wouldn’t do, or you wouldn’t do, doesn’t mean there isn’t a God. It just means we aren’t Him. As time goes on, perhaps we will gain more of an understanding of the will of God. Or maybe we won’t. But just because I read stories about bad things happening in the Bible, doesn’t mean I think it’s ok for me to do bad things in God’s name. And that should be the important part. If God ordered a city to be destroyed, well, I don’t understand it and may not even agree with it, but I don’t think it is permission for Christians to hurt people in God’s name. <o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">So, I am not going to justify my God. I am not going to “prove” to you, why He is real. And you should never expect me to, unless I start trying to convince you, why you need to believe in Him. Then you can feel free to ask me to prove my God to you. And in the same respect, I won’t demand that you prove with empirical evidence that you really love your family. <o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Fair enough?<o:p></o:p></span></div>Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com18tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-35401050557000576972012-05-01T15:06:00.000-07:002012-05-01T15:06:02.439-07:00How I would eliminate Atheism forever!In order to eliminate atheism for good, I would have to fix all that is wrong with christianity. I think that if christians did "only" what Jesus did, that there would be a lot less outspoken and angry atheists. As I read the Bible, I don't see Jesus preaching a message of judgement and condemnation. I see Jesus helping people and telling others to help people. I see Jesus showing God's love to people. In fact, the only time I see Jesus speaking harsh at all, was when He was criticizing the pharisees. They were so convinced that they had "earned" their way to heaven and Jesus warned them that they were in danger of God's wrath. He even went as far as to tell them that, not only were they not getting into heaven, but those they had deemed unworthy of heaven "would" be in heaven. <br />
<br />
Anyway, I want to take an atheist argument about atheism and turn it around on christians. Atheists have told me that atheism is NOT a belief. They state that "not" playing checkers isn't a belief, so atheism isn't either. I decided to take it a step further and ask the question "why isn't NOT playing a checkers a belief?" And I think it has to do with the attitude of the people who DO play checkers rather than those who don't. Let me explain.<br />
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In checkers you have rules. In checkers there are certain ways that you do things and certain ways you don't. People who play checkers are sometimes very passionate and enthusiastic about playing checkers. They have big tournaments with prizes, and they are a real big deal to these "checkers players." But people who play checkers don't criticize other people who play checkers. There are several different versions of checkers and people don't go around saying that their version of checkers is the "right" one and everyone else is wrong. Checkers players don't make fun of chess players and proclaim that chess players are wrong. As I stated earlier, checkers players have rules that they play by, but they don't freak out if someone doesn't like their rules. They just choose to not play with them. Checkers players don't run for political office and then try to force other people to play checkers; by "their" rules. Checkers players don't try to pass laws based on their rules and belief that checkers is fun. They don't try to force people to play checkers, who don't want to play checkers. <br />
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But what if they did? What if people who played checkers did all the things I listed above? I can assure you that people would rise up against them. People who didn't want to play checkers would proclaim their right to "not" play checkers and not be judged for it. These people would most likely organize themselves and look for political attention to create awareness of their persecution. They would write blogs about it being ok, to not like checkers. They would proclaim that not everybody wants to play checkers and they have the right to decide that for themselves. They might even create a logo for themselves, and before you know it, they would have a "movement" going. A movement that was fighting for the rights and freedom to NOT play checkers. <br />
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Of course, I am painting a ridiculous and exaggerated comparison. But am I? What if christians never did the things that I talked about checkers players doing? What if all christians were known for, was helping people in need. What if christians never preached about how bad people were, or how they were "sinners" and needed to repent so they didn't spend forever in hell? Why can't christians do that? Jesus didn't come with a message of hell, fire, and brimstone. He talked about heaven. He talked about His Father. He talked about forgiving your enemy. Don't get me wrong, He talked about the dangers of sin. He talked about being a good person. And I don't think atheists have a problem with that message. They would agree that we need to be good people. They would agree that there are consequences for being bad. What I never saw Jesus do, was point out to someone how bad they were. How they were a "sinner" who needed to change their wicked ways or they would spend eternity in hell. <br />
<br />
Except........<br />
<br />
He did speak like that on about 3 occasions. He spoke like that to the pharisees. The so called "religious experts." The one's who proclaimed that "they" had it all figured out. Jesus very clearly informed them, that they absolutely did NOT have it figured out. <br />
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I am not saying that we don't have to be saved from our sins because we do. We all do things that are wrong, from time to time. But that is not the point of heaven. God is not about "avoiding" hell. He is about having a relationship with. When I converted to christianity, it wasn't because someone told me what a horrible sinner I was. Someone took the time to share God with me. And that message was about love, mercy, and grace. Had he sat me down and told me about my sin, and how wicked I was, I probably would have walked away and would still be an atheist today. Or at the very least, a strong agnostic. But I was lucky. Someone who cared about me, taught me about mercy and grace and the rest grew from that perspective.Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com37tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-12159834038086827982012-04-27T00:23:00.003-07:002012-04-27T00:28:49.090-07:00A good atheist/christian conversation<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;">Below, is a conversation that took place between and an atheist on Facebook and me. I changed his name to Jay so my christian friends don't try to track him down. :-) </span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br />
</span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;">I think it is important to point out, that although neither one of us changed our position, we had a good conversation without slinging insults and without getting personal. This is the goal of my blogging. To show more examples of how atheists and christians can completely disagree on a topic and still be civil to each other. He is still an atheist (he even has the atheist logo tattooed over his heart) and I am still a christian, but we get along. </span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br />
</span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;">The conversation was based on my last blog about "Is God really a jealous God?" This was Jay's comment:</span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br />
</span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br />
</span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;">Jay: <span class="commentBody" data-jsid="text">if that was the case. that he is a jealous God, which he is, and your explanation makes some sense. Then why is the "devil" so well behaved? Isn't jealousy one of the seven deadly sins? let me explain my point further. Why is the devil a pe<span class="text_exposed_show">rfect gentleman, never talking back, never explaining why he does something, never complaining. But one time... he challenges god (bets him). But thats it. for a guy that constantly gets the short end of the stick. He never tries to explain his side of the story, or complains, etc. like the christian God does. Not even close! If you ask me God is an awfully whiny, jealous, unfair, hypocritical, narcissist and most definitely needs to learn some gentleman's manners from satan. </span></span></span><br />
<span class="commentBody" data-jsid="text"><span class="text_exposed_show" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span class="commentBody" data-jsid="text"><span class="text_exposed_show" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">for those of you besides Victor reading this.. I'm not a satan worshipper. just playing the devils advocate. </span></span></span><br />
<span class="commentBody" data-jsid="text"><span class="text_exposed_show" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">^_^ Pun intended. Nor do I hate your God.... wait. yes I do. I hate the idea of "that" God.</span></span></span><br />
<span class="commentBody" data-jsid="text"><span class="text_exposed_show" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;"><br />
</span></span></span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="commentBody" data-jsid="text"><span class="text_exposed_show"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;"><br />
</span></span></span></span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="commentBody" data-jsid="text"><span class="text_exposed_show"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">Me: </span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">Everyone reading this: Jay totally worships satan, don't let him fool you. He even has a goat head mask. Ive seen it.</span></span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 14px;"><br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 14px;">Me: </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">but to answer your question, Jay most of what you said about the devil comes from "man," not what the Bible says. The Bible is very vague about Satan. other than he tried to overthrow God, which is quite a big deal, but doesn't necessarily live up to the hype of his evil that "men" have attributed him to.</span></span><br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">Jay: </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">good point but why wouldn't god give him a fair trial? why not let him says his peace while he blames everything on him? and are some of Gods traits the same as he tells you not to have, or becareful of?</span></span><br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">Me: </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">We don't know what happened exactly, when satan was expelled from heaven. The Bible doesn't say. And I don't try to put myself on the same plane of thinking as God. I don't have a true concept of infinity like He does. Without a true understanding of infinity, it is difficult to make sense of the "here and now" when the "here and now" is all we know.</span></span><br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">Jay: </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">hmmm yes but then why the human traits if hes an all knowing God and why the pathetic jealousy and narcissism. I know your answer to this is what you just said. but it doesn't satisfy my reasoning. :)</span></span><br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">Me: </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">well I didn't write it to satisfy your reasoning. I wrote it because I was asked a question. Besides when have you ever known me to try and convert you or get you to see things my religous way. I am just trying to get christians and atheists to quit fighting, and focus on real problems that they can actually solve if they worked together.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;"> </span></span><br />
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</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">I think whether you agree with my reasoning or not, you can still find it valid and appreciate where I am coming from, in a subjective manner.</span></span><br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 14px;">Jay: </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">yup i can.</span></span><br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">Me: </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; line-height: 14px;">and see? That is how a christian and an atheist can agree to disagree and coexist. Now we can stop talking about religion and focus on how we are going to get our country back from greedy politicians </span></span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 14px;">and bankers.</span><br />
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</span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 14px;">Now, I know some people will say "that's great, I wish their could be more talks like that too. But the christians are too intent to try to tell everyone how to live their lives."</span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 14px;"><br />
</span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 14px;">That statement is completely false. I don't know any christians who try to tell people how to live. I hear about a couple of churches that try to, but I don't listen to them, just like atheists don't listen to them. Some will say that politicians are always making laws with religious content and I want you to know, I will vote against them every time I see them on the ballot. Those aren't christians trying to tell you what to do, they are politicians trying to tell you what to do. And ALL politicians try to tell us how we should live our lives. They are doing what they do because they are politicians trying to appeal to certain special interest groups, not because they are christians. And don't even try to play the "well they do these things in the name of God" card, or I will pull out how many white supremacist groups do what they do in the name "preserving the true American way." You don't want me comparing you to nazi skinheads do you? They claim to be true American Patriots. You really think it's fair to "generalize" a group, based on what a small percentage of them do? Whether they have power or not, they don't get to speak for the entire group. And like I said, instead of arguing with me, why not join me in taking them down? Work with christians like me who don't want religion in politics. We are both fighting the same things but from different angles. </span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 14px;"><br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 14px;">How powerful of a message would it be, if atheists and christians worked together on eliminating the same things they despised about "religion?" It can be done my friends. Indeed, it can.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; line-height: 14px;"><br />
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</span></div>Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com33tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-18624967837719512222012-04-23T23:21:00.003-07:002012-04-23T23:22:03.786-07:00Why is God a "Jealous" God? Does He really need US to stroke His ego??I just read a blog where the author is describing how arrogant God is because he is a jealous God. I notice that one issue that agnostics and atheists have in regards to christianity is perspective. They tend to look at christianity through poop colored glasses so most of what they see comes out as negative or bad. I will write a blog myself, about God's "jealousy." Maybe because I am married, and have been for over 18 years, I have a different perspective about God's jealousy. <br />
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In the blog, the author asks, "does the creator of the universe really need gnats to stroke His ego?" I don't think God's jealousy is about stroking His ego. Let me explain. I love my wife deeply. I have wonderful relationship with her and after 18 years, I don't just "love" my wife, I "enjoy" her. I truly enjoy sharing time and space with her. But I don't want to share that with anybody. I do not want another man in her life, that I have to compete with. <br />
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The Bible is filled with stories of God's people leaving His guidance to follow other "god's" and false idols. And it always gets them into trouble. When I read the Bible describe God's "jealousy" I can totally relate. God doesn't want us to love money, material things, or anything else that would cause us to put Him as second. Just like I wouldn't want another man pleasing my wife, or trying to put me in second place. <br />
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My wife and I own a gym together, so obviously I have to work with very attractive women. My wife always says "Go train her, and help her be successful but remember, you come home with me." And then she gives me her "naughty" little smile that she knows I love. That's my wires way of saying "do what you have to do, but don't go too far." That is what God is saying when he describes being "jealous." He is saying "Go ahead and go to work, make lots of money, even have nice things, but don't make any of those things more important than me."<br />
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Anyway, that's my take on the blog and my answer to my atheist friends about why I think God is a jealous God, and why I am ok with it. I'm, kind of the same way. :-)<br />
.Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-24361835062774102962012-04-23T14:20:00.000-07:002012-04-23T14:20:56.928-07:00Dear Atheist friends...This letter was intended for my atheist friends who are very loud and outspoken. It is directed to the one's who have accused me of child abuse for teaching my children "the golden rule" and other Biblical principles. It is directed to my atheist friends who have told me that christians are evil and should be carved out of society, the way you would cut out cancer from the body (true story). If you are not that type of atheist, then this may not be for you. However, you may still find something useful in my writings. <br />
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Dear Atheist friends,<o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">As a Christian I have joined your clubs, engaged in forums discussions, and facebook debates.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I have encountered atheists from both sides of the spectrum. Some are very polite and well mannered and some are vile hate spewing instigators. (by the way, the Christians have the same spectrum.) <br />
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As I see atheists attack Christianity and “expose” the evils of Christianity, I wonder what the motivation is. If the motivation is to “expose” Christians to the “horrors” of the Bible and God, do you think we haven’t<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>read the Bible already? We have read of the wars, we have read of the concepts of slavery and lack of women’s rights. Of course we have. And we have reconciled those 2000 to 4000 year old ideas, very much in the same way you have reconciled the horrors of slavery and a lack of women’s rights that occurred in this very country within the last 100 years. So, I am sorry but we are not going to freak out about<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>ideas from 2000 to 4000 years ago, anymore than you will freak out from the same acts in this country less than 100 years ago. <o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">But getting to the point of this letter. What is the mission of the outspoken atheist? Is it to prove a sense of “I am RIGHT because I am an atheist and you are WRONG because you are a Christian?” If that is the case, who cares? And besides, you are always calling Christians, the “know it all’s” aren’t you? <o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Is your intention to hopefully get people to “wake up” and realize that Christianity is a farce? If so, I think your efforts could be better served doing something productive. At least until science proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that God couldn’t possibly exist. <o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Do you think you are making the world a better place to be? Let’s examine that. By being outspoken, atheists have made strides in removing religion from the public. I agree with that. But I don’t see how you are contributing to that effort by spewing hate. All you are doing is making the Christian take a defensive posture and dig their heels into the ground, that much more. <o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">In my time as a member of the Central Oregon Atheists Club I have learned some amazing things about my faith. The first thing I learned is that my religious beliefs are my business. Not yours. So, for you to “speak out” against my religion is like me speaking out about my religion and trying to force it on you. If I don’t try to force my Christianity on you, I don’t think you should bash it. If you wanted to be productive in your atheism, why not try to encourage a Christian to truly follow the teachings of Jesus. The theme of Jesus’ teachings were to take care of the poor, love everybody, do not retaliate, etc… All good stuff, right? What if all Christians truly followed the teachings of Jesus? Would that be such a bad thing? Would you still despise Christianity as much? Do you despise Jesus, Christianity, or “Christians?” Most of my atheist friends that are outspoken do not have a problem with Christianity as much as they do with what people do with Christianity. Nowhere in the Bible are we instructed to force our teachings in schools, in the courts, or in the government. It’s not what Jesus did, either. In fact Jesus clearly told us that we are to keep religion separate from politics when He instructed us to “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and give to God, what is God’s” I for one, do not want to see my religious beliefs represented by my current government. My government is greedy, exploits the poor and middle class, looks for every excuse to go to war, and the list goes on. My current government does NOTHING the way Jesus taught us and I don’t want his message to be confused or mistaken with what my government is doing. I don’t want “In God we trust” on our money. I don’t want prayer in schools, and I don’t want to see the 10 commandments posted in the court houses. All those things imply that my government believes in the teachings of Jesus, but they sure as heck don’t practice them. <o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Your brother in life,<o:p></o:p></span></div><br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;">Victor<o:p></o:p></span></div>Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com8tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-27905052678708561822012-04-21T21:44:00.001-07:002012-04-21T21:48:14.146-07:00Why atheists just havent convinced meObviously, I hang out with atheists. I talk to them on facebook, I talk to them at my gym, and I talk to them when we are at atheist meetings. A common question that has come up often is "Victor, you seem to be intelligent and rational minded so how can you possibly believe in a God?" I have been asked the question enough, that I have decided to write a blog about my spiritual journey so I don't have to keep telling the story. <br />
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I don't know exactly when my conversion officially began. By all means, I have no business being a christian. My parents never took me to church. The only time I remember going to a church when I was in my parents home was if somebody was getting married. My mom and step dad weren't even married in a church. I do remember a time when I was in 2nd or 3rd grade that my aunt was taking me to church. I had a little Bible but I never read it. I made sure to bring it because if you did, you got a candy bar. At some point in my youth, someone gave me some Bible story books. I remember being fascinated by the stories and I read them over and over again. I remember being sad when I read the story of Jesus and saw the picture in the book, with Him being on the cross. I really enjoyed those stories but I had no idea they were contained in that little book I brought to church that got me candy every Sunday. Like I said, I never opened my Bible. My aunt taking me to church didn't last long because we moved but I think I went for about a year. <br />
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I didn't have any experience with church again until my senior year of high school. I had a girlfriend whose family was very into going to church. I went to church with her, but it was like going to the dentist. I wanted nothing to do with church or anything religious. I only did it to make her parents happy. When she got her license she wanted to start going to the early service and her parents were glad that she was taking the initiative to go to church on her own. They did not know that I had convinced my girlfriend to skip church so we could go have sex. And thankfully, they didn't ever ask the Pastor if he actually saw us in church. <br />
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And those 2 paragraphs describe the extent of church and religion, as far as I can remember, in my childhood. I did not grow up in a home where church, God, or the Bible, was forced down my throat. I was truly allowed to make my own decisions when it came to religion. <br />
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When my wife and I got married, we were both 18 years old. Religion was not important to either of us and we didn't go to church. We didn't have an interest in Church, God, or religion. My wife had grown up in a very religious family. But she grew up in the hypocritical, judgemental, double standard, religion that most atheists (and christians for that matter) despise. She had a couple of family members who were pastors and she had been told some of them stole from their churches. She witnessed double standards where her family would tell their church to "NOT" do something like watch TV, but then would have a TV in their home for the sports and other shows they enjoyed. So needless to say, my wife and I are were on the same page with religion. We just didn't need it. <br />
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That all changed when our first son was born. I was in the Marines and was on deployment. We were on a ship, patrolling the Philippines and did not have phone contact. When my son was born, my wife was not able to tell me that he was born completely blind. He had been born with no optic nerves. They did an MRI to make sure and there were no optic nerves. Nothing was attaching my sons eyes to his brain. My wife didn't know what to do. She was 19 years old, we were new on the base, so she didn't have many friends, and I was on a ship, somewhere in the middle of the South China Sea. For some reason, Jenise found herself in a small baptist church. Nobody invited her. Nobody suggested it, and she hadn't even been able to talk to me about it. But she went in and talked to the pastor. He asked her if they could put my son at the front of the church during service. They prayed for my son and the entire church layed their hands on my son and asked Jesus to have mercy on my son and restore his vision. He was about 3 months old at the time. When my son was 6 months old, he gained vision in his left eye. Our Doctor said he couldn't give us a medical justification for it. He said it was like a person being born without an arm, and then one day, and arm just decided to grow. After everyone left, the Doctor told my wife he was a chrsitian and although science didn't offer a reason for my sons sight, he knew my son was given his vision by God. I can't explain why God chose to give my son sight.<em> </em><br />
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Fast forward about 8 years to the year 2001. We casually went to church and never even considered getting "involved" with church. We wouldn't volunteer, but we would occasionally drop a ten or twenty bill in the plate, once in awhile. I was out of the Marines and quickly climbing the corporate ladder. I was working 7 days a week and even had a personal record of working 87 days in a row without a day off. I was a "company man." To make a long story short, my wife left me. She took our kids and went to California to stay with family. While she was gone, I didn't know what to do. I couldn't work, I couldn't eat. In fact, in 3 days, I only ate 2 bites of cocoa puffs cereal and 4 cheetos. (I was obviously not into health at that time) On the third day of no food, I felt an urge to read the Bible. I had never really read it so I had no idea where to look for advice or guidance. I opened the Bible and it was at the book of Ephesians. For the details on what happened when I opened that chapter, read my article on <a href="http://elitefiteducate.org/personal-training/victor-articles/74-my-personal-testimony" target="_blank">My Personal Testimony</a>. I felt like God was reaching out to me. Some of my atheist friends have asked me, "Why don't you follow Thor or Zeus, then?" The answer is because I never felt a "calling" from them. All the times I felt God "calling" on me, I responded, and it was real to me. Some atheists get annoyed when I say things like "I felt or it seemed right" because they aren't scientific and you can't "prove" them or reproduce them in a lab. I get that, but then again, that's why I describe my faith in God as "personal." I really enjoyed Rob Bell's description of what a person may experience with God in regards to "feelings" and "hunches." <br />
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These are just two examples of things in my life that brought me to God. I have about 20 or more "coincidences" where the solution to the problem always seemed to lead to God. I wasn't forced into my belief, I didn't get it from the Bible. In fact, I was going to church for several years before even reading the Bible. My spiritual journey was very personal for me. It didn't include family, church, or the Bible. And that is why I can understand people who don't believe in God. They didn't have "my" experiences. They didn't see the things I saw, they didn't see the things I heard and felt, but mostly, they didn't see the changes in "ME" that occurred as I became more involved in God. I was not a good person before God was in my life. A common atheist argument is that they can do good without God. I always say "Good for you. I couldn't" If it wasn't for my faith in God, I would not be married today. It wasn't until I surrendered my ego and my pride that God began to change my heart and make me into the man that my wife needed. It wasn't easy and it didn't happen over night. But it was real for me. <br />
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I do not intend of this blog to convince any atheists that God is real. I know this blog won't do that and some of you will even be rolling your eyes and laughing at me as you read this. The purpose of this blog was just to give some insights on why I believe the way I do. As I stated earlier, I can completely understand why an atheist doesn't believe in God. You can look at the evidence for God and completely dismiss it, if there is no personal experience to go along with it. I think that is why I can relate to atheists and engage with them so well. I don't have a problem with their lack of belief. Especially, with the history that christianity has. But that is between them and God. I will never try to "force" my beliefs on an atheist because that didn't happen to me. I will never try to make them feel "small" because that never happened to me. I was allowed to come to my own conclusions and I will always give atheists that same respect. If they have questions I will do my best to answer them, but if the questions are too technical I might refer them to someone more knowledgeable than me. I am not a Bible scholar. I am just a man who had his life changed, and has a story to tell about it.Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-34384702134292794432012-04-10T09:50:00.002-07:002012-04-10T09:50:54.651-07:00Taking a breakI am taking a break from blogging for about 2 weeks. My wife and I are making some important decisions for our family and I need to be focused for awhile and not distracted. I will be back in about 2 weeks and I really appreciate all the feedback everyone has given me.Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-3340669099446088172012-04-03T00:48:00.000-07:002012-04-03T00:48:24.510-07:00How atheists made me a better christian<div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_15674753" style="clear: left; color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><h2 class="subtitle" style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: 400; font: normal normal bold 1.2em/normal Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">Jumping into the Lions den- and loving it</h2><div class="txtd" id="txtd_15674753" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">After getting more and more involved with the atheist community, I come bearing some interesting facts that I feel merit some attention. For starters, their meetings are not as dull and boring as I assumed. Before I attended a meeting, I couldn’t figure out what a bunch of people who don’t believe in something could possibly talk about. I envisioned the meetings a little like this.</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">Atheist 1: Hey man, you still don’t believe in God?</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">Atheist 2: Nope.</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">Atheist 1: Cool. Me neither.</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">Atheist 2: Cool.</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">END OF MEETING!!!!</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">I mean what else could you possibly talk about in regards to “not believing in something?” I actually found the meetings to be very satisfying and very thought provoking. I also want to point out that there were no black robes with goat masks, no pentagrams, and although there was a big fire pit, I don’t recall seeing a single virgin sacrifice. When they realized I was a christian, they were fine with it. I did get a couple “eye rolls” and I did get a “oh boy, here we go….” but nobody tried to feed me to the lions so I can’t complain.</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">I didn’t get involved in the early discussions because I was new, I just didn’t know anybody yet. There were two conversations I overheard where an atheist was describing an encounter with a christian and how he made the christian look stupid by pointing out that a person can’t be logical or intelligent and have any belief in christianity. Inside my head, I rolled my eyes and thought “oh boy, here we go.”</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">Slowly, a couple of people came over to talk to me so I would feel a little more comfortable and join the group discussions. Eventually, it came out that I was a christian. I wasn’t trying to hide it, I just didn’t feel the need to jump out and say “Hey everyone, I am a christian.” Besides, to say that I felt like a Reggae band in a Klu Klux Klan rally was an understatement.</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /></div></div></div><div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_15674800" style="clear: left; color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><h2 class="subtitle" style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: 400; font: normal normal bold 1.2em/normal Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">What I learned about Atheists</h2><div class="txtd" id="txtd_15674800" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">Something fascinating that I am learning about Atheists as I type this article is that if I type the word atheist without a capital “A” there is no problem. However, if I try to type the word christian without a capital “C” then I get the red squiggly line, indicating I have misspelled the word. If I change the “c” to a capital “C” then it goes away. Interesting. Anyway, by the end of the evening, I made about 5 really good friends that I fully intend to re-visit and have further discussions with. I learned that some of my misconceptions of atheists were not as accurate as I thought. For instance, most atheists are not hate spewing, venomous, christian haters that want to destroy our way of life. For the most part, they just want to be left alone. They feel a lot of pressure with public displays of christianity and when government puts up christian monuments or makes laws with a christian theme. Although we haven’t had many new laws with a Christian theme, I can understand why they don’t want the 10 Commandments on govt buildings, or prayer in schools, or “In God we trust” on our currency. I will address my feelings on this in a later section called “What I learned about my faith.” For the most part, the atheists in my new atheist group were very level headed, good people, who I had much more in common with, than I would have ever guessed. There were not any of the vile, hateful types that I used to stereotype all atheists as being. In fact, as I associate more and more with atheists, in person and online is that most of the atheists are just like me. Other than the obvious, of course. What I found was that the vile and mean atheists really make up a very small percentage of the whole group. Unfortunately, they are the loud ones. We have all heard about the “silent majority” and the hateful atheists are definitely the “loud minority.”</div></div></div><div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_15674813" style="clear: left; color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><h2 class="subtitle" style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: 400; font: normal normal bold 1.2em/normal Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">What I learned about christians</h2><div class="txtd" id="txtd_15674813" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">Hanging around Atheists has really given me a new perspective on the whole christian movement. I always looked at christians, myself included, as the good guys, no matter what. It has only been until recently that I have been able to see us in a different light and I owe it to the time I have spent with atheists. Let me explain my point. I have an uncle. Let’s say his name is Uncle Joe. Now, my Uncle Joe is kind of different. He tends to tick a lot of people off and he really doesn’t have too many friends because of this. Since he is family, myself, and the rest of our family is able to overlook some of Uncle Joe’s less than attractive qualities. Because he is family, we are able to tolerate him a little better. People on the outside of the family, however, cannot usually stand to be with him for more than about 5 minutes. This is what I noticed with some christians. I wasn’t able to see how obnoxious and annoying they were because they were like my family. I was willing to overlook certain qualities because they were on my side. It wasn’t until I started looking at christians from the view point of the atheist that I was able to say “Wow, we really piss people off. And I see why.”</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">Another thing I realized about christians is that we have the same 10% that the atheists do. A very small percentage of christians are very intense, hate spewing, judgmental, opinionated, and critical of people who are not like them. I can see why atheists get so annoyed with us. We have a “belief” system, yet within that belief system exists over 50 different doctrines and dogmas. All 50 different doctrines believe that “they” are the right ones and everyone else is wrong. In fact, some of those 50 doctrines are so intense in their beliefs that they believe all the other 49 doctrines are wrong and will go to hell for it. There is quite a bit of discrepancy considering we are supposed to be a united front with a consistent message. I for one do not have a problem with all the different doctrines since for the most part, we agree on the major issues of the Bible, but I can definitely see how an atheist can take issue with it.</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">The final thing I have noticed about christians is that the majority of Christians do not act out their faith. Remember when I said earlier that there was not too much difference between me and the atheists? Did anyone notice anything wrong with that? A christian’s life should be more than church, work, and football. We are called to be “holy.” The word “holy” means to be set apart. It doesn’t mean “better than” or “higher than” or “favored.” It just means we should be set apart. Our greatest teacher was Jesus, and His life was about serving. EVERY DAY. Not just on Sunday’s by dropping a “ten” in the plate as it passes by. If Atheists saw Christians never “saying” anything about how people should live, but only saw Christians serving the poor, participating in community every week, taking care of widows and orphans, and being a pillar for people in society, they wouldn’t be so angry. I know this, because I have asked them. Don’t get me wrong, the Church has done amazingly wonderful things for communities and people all over the world. Unfortunately though, just like we have that 10% of loud and opinionated Christians, we also only have about 10% that actually serve like we are supposed to.</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">Associating with atheists has allowed me to see what we need to do in the Church to engage with society more and be a quality example to the world. It has also strengthened my faith and convicted me to analyze my own life and seek improvement. I have found myself holding back because I feel like I am “doing enough.” I have found that I can do more and if I want to gain the ear of an atheist, they don’t care what I have to “say.” They want to see what I “do” and if it aligns with the teachings of Jesus.</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /></div></div></div><div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_15674817" style="clear: left; color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><h2 class="subtitle" style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: 400; font: normal normal bold 1.2em/normal Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">What I learned about my own faith</h2><div class="txtd" id="txtd_15674817" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">Hanging out with atheists has done amazing things for my faith and my walk with The Lord. After listening to atheist’s voice their opinions on public displays of faith, I can see where they are coming from. A faith in God is a personal thing. We are supposed to have a personal relationship with Jesus and everybody’s faith walk is different. It is difficult for some, to “choose” to have a faith walk when they feel like they are being forced or coerced into it. A couple years ago, I was one of the Christians fighting for prayer in school, the 10 commandments in court houses, and “In God we trust” on our money. I have recently changed my attitude on those things. I have realized that my children do not need to see public displays of God in order for me to teach them. I do not need a moment of prayer in school to teach my kids to pray. What I do believe to be helpful in schools would be a moment of reflection where children are taught to engage with their previous day’s decisions and reflect on the things they did and their interactions with people. I find too many people going through life with their “heads in clouds” and not paying attention to the details around them. I believe it would be very advantageous to equip children at a young age, with the ability to “be present” in their lives. That way, Christian children could pray if they wanted, Muslim children could pray, Hindu children could meditate, and atheist children could stare off into the corners and watch for the next form of life to spontaneously combust and create itself out of swirling gasses. HA HA, sorry, I couldn’t help it. He he.</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">I learned that my faith is very important to me and something I love. It is not something I feel I need to “defend” or “justify” to someone else. When we treat our faith like something we have to defend, like a brick wall, that can be very dangerous. It can be dangerous because there are so many uncertainties about our faith and so many things we can’t explain or prove. (Hence the term faith) If one of the aspects of our faith (or brick wall) is called into question and we don’t have an absolute answer, we are put in an awkward situation. Instead, my faith is something I enjoy. It is something I love and therefore, I invite other people to join me. Kind of like a trampoline. A trampoline has a hundred springs and I can tell you from experience that not all of those springs have to be in good working order, in order to play. So, if one of my springs (or beliefs) comes into question, or I don’t have a clear fact, it’s ok. If you don’t want to join me, I don’t mind. I am still going to play. And I don’t defend the things I love. I am not going to take out pictures of my kids and try to “defend” or justify to you how smart and great my kids are. Rather, I am going to share them with you, and invite you join me, in enjoying them. If you don’t care about my kids, I don’t mind because they still bring me great joy and delight. I think if more Christians took this type of approach with their faith they would be able to coexist with atheists and maybe even be a positive influence on them.</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">Which brings me to my next realization. christians should never, in my opinion, try to “convert” an atheist. Trying to argue and debate with an atheist about who is right could possibly be the most monumental waste of time there is. It is usually a complete waste of time because neither side has enough facts to support their belief and both sides are looking for facts. Arguing with an atheist over the existence of God is like arguing about Whether or not chocolate ice cream is good. Both sides can provide evidence to their sides but at the end of the day it comes down to how you interpret the evidence. And that, is the biggest and only difference I see between an educated atheist and an educated Christian. Both sides have plenty of evidence to support their beliefs, but like science, evidence is in the eye of the interpreter. Atheists cannot deny the existence of mounds and mounds of evidence. From the archeological discoveries, to the 40,000+ historical records and documents, to the secular historical recordings, and eye witness testimony, atheists have to reconcile there is a lot of stuff to support Christianity. All they can do is, discredit the evidence or say they “it doesn’t work for them” but it does not eliminate evidence simply because you don’t believe it. The same is true for Christians when they want to debate evolution. They can disagree all they want with the evidence, but there is tons of evidence to support the claims of evolution as well. It just depends on how you interpret the evidence. Which is an amazing concept in philosophy when you think about it, but that’s another blog in itself.</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">I hope that this article will cause Christians to analyze themselves and reach out to the atheist community. Most Christians I know are somewhat intimidated by atheists and avoid them at all costs. It would suit our cause, and in my opinion, please our Savior to reach out to them, treat them like humans, treat them as equals, and see what amazing things can happen. I have been warned by some well meaning christians that I should be careful of the atheists because they might “influence” me and I could lose my faith. My response to that is that if a little investigation can destroy my faith, then I never had faith at all. If my faith is reduced, simply because I left the comforts of my couch and “tested” my faith, then what kind of faith is that? Is that what my God wants of me? To sit in comfort, and never test my faith? I don’t think so.</div></div></div>Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-47447879296747694032012-03-29T15:30:00.000-07:002012-03-29T15:30:18.001-07:00How I feel about Athesits, as a Christian<div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_15642064"><div class="txtd" id="txtd_15642064">People have asked me why I am so tolerant and accepting of Atheism. My answer is simple. Because I am not afraid of it. I do not mind people who think different than me. As I have stated before, I do not need prayer in school or "In God We Trust" on the dollar bill to teach my children about the Lord. I don't need the 10 commandments in the courthouse to teach my children about them. I can honor and appreciate what other people think and believe (or don't believe) and I hope others would do the same for me.<br />
<div style="text-align: right;"></div>That being said, I am still committed to speaking the truth about The Lord. I just don't feel I need to shove it down peoples throats or tell them how wrong they are, to speak God's truth's in their lives. I believe I speak the most about God's truths when I say <strong>NOTHING</strong> and simply live my life the way God intended. If an Atheist is curious as to why I behave a certain way or do certain things I will never forsake an opportunity to share how God has changed my life.<br />
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If they want me to stop talking at that point, I will. I will respect them as a person. If they ask me questions, I will do my best to answer them. <br />
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I will apologize for the wrongs that my fellow Christians have done in "God's" name. I will apologize for the crusades and the Spanish inquisition and explain that I do not believe that those acts were committed by men who knew God's love, but rather men with an agenda who needed justification to do bad things, and used my Father's name to do so.<br />
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If they want me to stop talking at that point, I will. I will respect them as a person. If they have any questions about those terrible acts, I will do my best to answer them.<br />
</div></div><div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_15642080"><div class="txtd" id="txtd_15642080">When they say things like "I cant believe in a loving God that would spend thousands of years creating people He claims to love, and then only let a small select few spend eternity with Him" I will say "I don't believe in that God either." I believe that God sent His only son to die for our sins because He knew that no matter how hard we tried, we will always screw everything up. I will share the "Good News" that Jesus died for our sins and you can come as you are. God will make any change He wants in you. And He may not make ANY change in you right, now. Yes, that's right, God may want you to stay an Atheist for now. When HE is ready for you, HE will call you. YOU will not call upon Him. Some Christians would chastise for saying that God may want you to be an Atheist right now. And I would only respond with "Hasn't there been enough wars, bloodshed, and suffering, because men tried to claim that they knew God's will?"<br />
</div></div><div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_15642084"><div class="txtd" id="txtd_15642084">If they ask me stop talking at that time, I will. I will respect them as a person. If they have questions about that, I will do my best to answer them.<br />
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If they ask me to explain how God created everything, and if evolution is so wrong then what "really" happened, I will answer "I don't know." I will tell them that I don't know how God did it, and I don't know if evolution is wrong. I truly believe that evolution is the best answer we have right now, but I am no scientists. I will explain that when I was a child, I didn't know how my parents made me, but I didn't feel the need to know, because I knew they loved me. I don't know how God created the universe and all of it's glory. But I don't need to know because I know He loves me. If one day, we learned everything about how we got here, and that evolution was an undeniable fact in all facets, and all scientists around the globe agreed that we discovered it's deepest secrets, my response would be "cool. Let's go get some ice cream or something." My God is about "love" and "love" doesn't ever have the need to be "right." It just "loves."<br />
<br />
If they ask me stop talking at that time, I will. I will respect them as a person. If they have questions about that, I will do my best to answer them.<br />
<br />
I have never intended to "convert" an atheist to Christianity. I think Christians are very arrogant and self righteous when they think "they" are going to convert anybody. I only attempt to give them a different perspective of Christianity than what they currently have. I want them to realize that "most" Christians do not judge, do not hate gays, do not condemn, and do not kill in "God's" name. Most Christians are very much like me. Respectful of others beliefs (or non beliefs) and just wanting to be treated with the same respect.<br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjuOslnvAeo6DO3FC74lIB-fwjARITKRbcV1Kw5_TpFiJAmv1bywL0UYYBq27rQJ9ppFHr8CTG63avyGR-wkkXbpXiY-QQjRjWpJSjXA-43d7FRenWCgv6e3BupnSMRpvRbh3cdt-yP5ZVK/s1600/religionpenis.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjuOslnvAeo6DO3FC74lIB-fwjARITKRbcV1Kw5_TpFiJAmv1bywL0UYYBq27rQJ9ppFHr8CTG63avyGR-wkkXbpXiY-QQjRjWpJSjXA-43d7FRenWCgv6e3BupnSMRpvRbh3cdt-yP5ZVK/s320/religionpenis.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><strong><em>This makes perfect sense to me.</em></strong><br />
<strong><em>And it seems totally reasonable.</em></strong></td></tr>
</tbody></table>The Christians who spew hatred, condemnation, judgement, and the such are very much the "loud minority." I have moved 17 times in my adult life and attended over 50 different churches. I have never once heard a sermon on why we should hate gays, or judge our neighbors, or slaughter people who don't believe in our God. The idiot Christians that do those things to annoy atheists (and me) are just being louder than the majority.<br />
<br />
The intention of this blog is to speak up for the quiet Christians, and try to be louder than the ignorant ones.</div></div>Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-45099093425053321912012-03-28T21:11:00.000-07:002012-03-28T22:59:15.704-07:00What if atheists were just as loud as christians<div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_16697025" style="clear: left; color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><h2 class="subtitle" style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: 400; font: normal normal bold 1.2em/normal Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">People say that atheists are really loud and I disagree</h2><div class="txtd" id="txtd_16697025" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">What if atheists were as vocal as christians? Oh, I know some christians will argue that they are louder than christians but please let's be real. What if atheists demanded the dollar bill said something like "There is no God and never has been?"<br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" />What if political meetings began with an open proclimation that "God isnt real and those who believe in Him are fools?"<br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" />What if the court houses had signs that told you "NOT" to believe in God or you would be alienated from society? <br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" />What if atheists were THAT vocal about their beliefs? What would we, as christians do? Well, I would think that we would fight like crazy for our voice to be heard. I would hope that we would shout from the highest mountain top that we have the "right" to believe in God, and the govt should not make us feel "small" for believing. I would think that we would probably even be "angry" and "outspoken" towards atheists. We would probably organize groups to have our voice heard. I can't say exactly what I think we would do, but I would hope we would not just lay down and allow a "non belief" in God forced down our throats. <br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" />Now, let's reverse the roles. What if christians did everything I just listed above?<br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" />Oh, wait a second............</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><br />
</div></div></div><div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_16697150" style="clear: left; color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><h2 class="subtitle" style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: 400; font: normal normal bold 1.2em/normal Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">What we need to witness</h2><div class="txtd" id="txtd_16697150" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;">My point in all this, is that I attempt to witness to atheists almost every day. It is extremely difficult because I am starting off, in a 6 feet deep hole because the atheist has been made to feel "small, lesser, insignificant, dumb, and even criminal." <br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" />I don't need my money to say "In God we trust." I don't need the 10 commandments on the court houses. In fact, if removing them from public, would ease tensions between atheists and christians then I say let's take them down. <br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" />As christians, WE should accept the responsibility to share God's love with people and not money. WE should be the ones leading by example, and showing people how to live a Godly life, NOT a lifeless, soulless piece of rock with engravings. <br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" />We should be bold witnesses for Christ in our day to day actions, not by trying to force God onto people by creating public proclimations of God. <br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" />Want to influence an atheist? SHOW them Jesus in you!!<br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" />Don't sit back and try to "propaganda" them into a relationship with Christ.<br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" /><br style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;" />It's not how He taught us.</div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><br />
</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><iframe allowfullscreen='allowfullscreen' webkitallowfullscreen='webkitallowfullscreen' mozallowfullscreen='mozallowfullscreen' width='320' height='266' src='https://www.youtube.com/embed/1pwwvBygoFA?feature=player_embedded' frameborder='0'></iframe></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.75em; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><br />
</div></div></div><div class="module moduleAdSpot color0" id="mod_new12" style="clear: left; color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 18px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 5px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><div id="google_ads_div_knowledge_hub_share_520x200_ad_wrapper" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><div id="google_ads_div_knowledge_hub_share_520x200_ad_container" style="display: inline-block; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></div></div></div></div>Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-65899704753598207172012-03-27T17:36:00.000-07:002012-03-27T17:36:15.680-07:00Mr. DeityAn atheist friend of mine sent me a link to this video of Mr. Deity. The clip is part of a series of short films put together by a guy who takes what he considers christian contradictions and makes parody videos of them. Not everything is a contradiction, sometimes, he makes videos on topics that atheists typically disagree with, or just don't like about christianity. <br />
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<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><iframe allowfullscreen='allowfullscreen' webkitallowfullscreen='webkitallowfullscreen' mozallowfullscreen='mozallowfullscreen' width='320' height='266' src='https://www.youtube.com/embed/6gnQz32c5EA?feature=player_embedded' frameborder='0'></iframe></div><br />
I can appreciate the humor in the videos and have even used them in my outreach to atheists. The videos have given me a great insight into the mind of the skeptic, atheist, and agnostic. The videos quite often make very valid points and when you watch them with an open mind, it makes it easier to understand the views of a non believer. <br />
<br />
I think if christians want to reach out to non believers to either share the gospel with them, or simply to break down barriers like I hope to do, they have to first understand where the non believer is coming from. These videos do a great job of doing that and I think it would be good for christians to watch them so they can better understand the atheist, skeptic, and agnostic. <br />
<br />
Speaking from experience, most christians are completely wrong when they think about atheists. After spending some time with them in my atheist club, I realized how many preconceived ideas I had, were completely wrong. <br />
<br />
I would highly encourage christians to watch a couple of these videos so they can understand where atheists are coming from. If we have any hope of influencing an atheist, we need to know where they are coming from. And when I say "influence" I don't mean "convert to christianity." If that is your goal, I will tell you that you have a huge task ahead of you and you will most likely not succeed. When I say "influence" I only mean to show atheists that not all christians are gay bashing, hate spewing, judgemental, and condemning. That is the first step in breaking down the barriers. <br />
<br />
My son showed one of these videos to his youth pastor at church and the youth pastor said it was inappropriate for him to bring that in church. Then in youth group, he called on my son to answer a question and said "Let's hear what Steven's atheist answer is." Now, my son wasn't upset and I knew he meant it in a joking manner, but he really missed out on an opportunity to engage in some good dialogue with my son on some real issues. <br />
<br />
I showed the videos to my 16 year old and 14 year old sons and asked for their opinions. They both said they were funny but asked me why I would show them these videos. I explained to them that my faith in God was an important part of my life, but it was "my" faith, not theirs. I told them that I wanted them to believe in God but I didn't want them to believe in God because their mother and I believed in God, or because the church told them to believe in God. I wanted them to believe because it made sense to them. I told them I never wanted them to be afraid to challenge their faith because if they are afraid to challenge it, then they probably don't really have it. My sons said they appreciated my outlook on it and continued to watch some of the videos.Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1251768360003248230.post-4187944475843686682012-03-25T15:03:00.002-07:002012-03-25T19:04:29.892-07:00Struggling with Christianity<div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_13482687"><h2 class="subtitle">I am a Christian and I struggle with it</h2><div class="txtd" id="txtd_13482687">I have been a Christian for about the last 11 years of my life. Lately, I had this feeling that something was wrong. I couldn't put my finger on it, and one day found myself reading hubs written by atheists. One in particular, was written by a guy named Mark. His hub talked about how self righteous and hypocritical Christians are. I found myself strangely drawn to this hub and the several hundred comments that followed. What was the most fascinating to me, was that I agreed with almost everything he said. I found myself trying to empathize with this atheist and actually cheering him on, in spite of his vile and hate-filled statements. As vile and hateful as he was; he was right on almost everything he said. I am going to come back to this but I want to lay a foundation for my struggles as a Christian?</div></div><div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_13482822"><h2 class="subtitle"> </h2><h2 class="subtitle">Who is really right?</h2><div class="txtd" id="txtd_13482822">How many different religions are out there? Does anyone really know? Here is a harder question. How many different "Christian" doctrines are out there? You have the main ones like the Catholics, the non-denominational Christians, Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons, the Born again Christians, Baptist, Southern Baptists, Nazarenes, and forgive me for the ones I left out. Within each of the above named "major" Christina religions, each of them contain several different "doctrines" that have different beliefs. For arguments sake and the sake of easy math I am going to say there are at least 50 different doctrines that all wear the title "Christian" in some way or another. But here's the thing. They all say "their" doctrine and beliefs are correct and the others are wrong. Some of them (like the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics) are so adamant that they are right and everyone is wrong that they believe the other 49 doctrines are all going to hell. Even though they all read from the same Bible, follow the same God, and believe in the same Jesus. Is it any wonder why so many atheists look at us like we're the crazy one's? We can't even agree among each other. <br />
So how does one decide which "doctrine" is the "right" doctrine? Bible scholars have agreed forever, that the Bible was meant to be interpreted. If anyone wants to argue this with me, then please tell me when was the last time you gave someone a "Christian Kiss?" It is clearly in the Bible that when we meet other Christians we are to greet them with a Christian Kiss, so why don't we do this? Because somewhere along the way, as society changed, someone decided that it was not necessary. What about the sabbath? How is it defined? Even in Jesus' day, there was much debate about what could be done on the sabbath and what couldn't be done? Some rabbi's said you could walk one mile on the sabbath, but no more. Another rabbi would say that you could walk 3 miles, but no more. Are we to believe that whether or not I spend an eternity in hell is based on how far I walked in a day? In the Bible Jesus said his "yolk" was light. What a lot of people do not realize is that a "yolk" was a particular set of beliefs that individual rabbis held. See my example about walking on the sabbath above. Each rabbi had a certain set of beliefs and that was described as his yolk. My point in that, is that if you have not studied Judaism, then you would likely not know that. That verse in the Bible would very little meaning to you, or you could easily miss the entire point. The Bible was written mainly in Greek, Hebrew, and Arabic. If you try to read the Bible in modern day English, then you will miss almost all of the major points in the Bible. If you don't understand Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, and the culture of Jesus's day then you cannot understand the Bible the way it was intended. How do you say that "your belief" is right and someone else's is wrong when you can't even understand the original context in which the Bible was written in?<br />
People typically base their belief system on what they learn in their Church. Did you know that Rabbi's have the entire Old Testament memorized? In fact, they have it memorized by the time they are 15 years old. When Rabbi's want to get a better understanding, they get other Rabbi's together and they pray and meditate for days, sometimes weeks at a time. Then they discuss it together as a group to try to come to a collective agreement on the scripture. Does anyone know any Pastor in our modern "Christian" Churches that do that? I have been to at least 30 different "Christian" Churches and I have never known a Pastor who had the entire Bible memorized and regularly met with other Pastors who had the Bible memorized to study a particular scripture for weeks at a time. So, how can I put a whole lot of faith in what my Pastor says? Especially when I can find several thousand Pastors that completely disagree with him? Again, how do we know who is right and who is wrong? Especially since some Pastors claim that my Pastor is so wrong that I will be going to hell because I listened to him. <br />
I am sorry but I really struggle with that.</div></div><div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_13483070"><h2 class="subtitle"> </h2><h2 class="subtitle">The authority to decide</h2><div class="txtd" id="txtd_13483070">Where do these Pastors and experts get their "authority" to put out doctrine that determines who goes to hell and who gets heaven? Is is The Bible? Well, I have already discussed that these experts and "Church Leaders" can't even agree on a single interpretation of The Bible, so that's out. I don't know where they get it, but I am here to say I don't have it. I am fan of<a href="http://www.robbell.com/" target="_blank"> Rob Bell</a>. Rob Bell has a unique outlook on Christianity. He has studied Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, and Judaism extensively. He is also one of the most criticized Pastors in the country right now. He preaches messages about<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODUvw2McL8g" target="_blank"> God's universal love</a> for everyone equally. He questions the religious interpretations of all doctrines and cautions people about being too judgemental and harsh. Yet, he is constantly being bashed in the media for teaching the "wrong" message. I believe people are entitled to their opinions but if you are going to criticize Rob Bell, then wouldn't it make sense for you to be an expert in Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, and Judaism? What if you don't know anything about those things? Should you even be opening your mouth? By what authority can someone criticize someone who is an expert in his field when you have never even studied the field like he has? What do you call that person? Should a person who is morbidly obese, and extremely deconditioned really be slandering a fitness expert? Should a homeless person really be qualifying whether or not Bill Gates really knows anything about computers? <br />
The Bible is very clear that "all have fallen short of the glory of God." So who gets to decide who fell too short and who fell short, but they were close enough? It is a common theme for Christians to say that homosexuality is wrong and if you are gay then you are going to hell. Why is that? Does God put "varying degrees" on sin? I am pretty sure He doesn't. In fact, I am pretty sure that to God "sin is sin." If that is the case then how is the homosexual different from the person who looks at another woman with lust in his eyes? Is he condemned because he struggles with that sin? What if he never cheats on his wife? What if a guy has angry thoughts? The Bible says angry thoughts are like murder in God's eyes. If the homosexual has to go to hell then wouldn't these two guys also? So who gets to decide which sins are ok and which ones will absolutely keep you in hell forever? There are only two references to homosexuality in the New Testament. One in Romans and one in 1 Corinthians, and neither one of them say you are absolutely going to hell for it. In fact, the Bible speaks more about greed, money, and power than homosexuality so why don't we place more emphasis on those? I know several homosexuals that are loving, peaceful, God fearing people. I know several Christian groups that are hate spewing, condemning, criticizing, judgemental, vipers. Am I to think the hate spewing Christian has a place in heaven but the good hearted homosexual is cast out? Sorry, but I don't think so. </div></div><div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_13483026"><h2 class="subtitle"> </h2><h2 class="subtitle">The cosmic Quiz</h2><div class="txtd" id="txtd_13483026">The way most "Christian" religions treat salvation, is like a cosmic quiz that you must answer correctly or spend an eternity in hell. The problem with the quiz is that the study materials are so ambiguous, there is no way to know if you are studying the right material. Especially since the study material was written over the course of 4000 years, more than 2000 years ago, by over 40 different authors, in more than 4 different languages, and was written for a culture that I cannot possibly begin to comprehend. But if I fail the test I go to hell forever? I am sorry, but I just don't think that is what God had in mind.<br />
How is that something that is so ambiguous like the Bible can be the road map for something so eternal and final like my eternal salvation? Don't get me wrong, I completely believe the Bible. But I believe "MY VERSION AND INTERPRETATIONS" of the Bible and so do you, if you are a Christian. And so do the Mormons. And the Catholics. And the Baptists. And the Nazarenes. And the............ you get my point. </div></div><div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_13483278"><h2 class="subtitle"> </h2><h2 class="subtitle">What I learned from the Atheists</h2><div class="txtd" id="txtd_13483278">I want to start this by saying I have a new found appreciation for Atheists. Most of the ones I talked with were quite civil and willing to engage in meaningful conversation with me. One thing that I found similar with Atheists and Christians is that they both mistake faith and facts. They both have a belief (even though Atheists claim they have no belief) yet claim them as facts. The problem is neither side can prove their "facts." Christians cannot prove that God exists, just like Atheists can't prove God doesn't exist. And before some "hell, fire, and brimstone" Christian wants to try and tell me their "proof" that God exists, you can't. Because if you could prove that God existed then it would no longer be faith. It would be fact! <br />
It seems to me that in the Bible, when God wanted people to know "He was real" he came right out and showed them. He made bushes burn, He spoke, He blinded them, He raised people from the dead, etc. He made it abundantly clear that there was no mistake who He was. Well, He hasn't done that for me yet. It doesn't mean I don't believe in Him, because I do. It just means I don't think I have all the answers. I am also not an expert in Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, and Judaism so I can't possibly think, with any integrity that I even comprehend half of what God wanted me to get. What I learned from Atheists is that I ma not going to convince anyone that God is real, based on facts. And I'm ok with that. It's my faith that allows me to believe in God, and that's enough for me. <br />
I don't understand God. I don't "get" Him. And I am ok with that, because if I could truly understand and comprehend God then He would cease to exist because I would "be God." And if you know me at all, you know that aint happenin. </div></div><div class="module moduleText color0" id="mod_13483421"><h2 class="subtitle"> </h2><h2 class="subtitle">So, what does Victor believe?</h2><div class="txtd" id="txtd_13483421">First of all, I believe in God. I believe in Jesus, and I believe in the Bible as best as I can understand it. I am constantly trying to grow in my faith and learn more. I don't know if homosexuals go to heaven. I don't have a problem with them. It's not for me, but I am not bothered by them. In fact, I know some pretty cool people that are awesome and are living in same sex relationships. I don't know which doctrines are right. If I was forced to choose which one was right, I would say "none of them are." They all have some flaws in my opinion. Sometimes I think God is up in heaven saying "Holy Crap! These people don't get it at all!" and other times I think He is lovingly looking down on us saying "Guys, stop sweating the small stuff and just love each other." I honestly don't have the slightest clue and I am not going to act like I do. <br />
I hope I get to see everyone I know and love in heaven. I hope pop tarts are not unhealthy for you in heaven. Oh, I miss pop tarts so much. I hope I see all my homosexual friends that I love in heaven. I hope I figure stuff out in heaven that stressed me out on earth. I hope I see all my enemies, and can be completely reconciled with them in heaven. But ultimately, I don't know what to expect. <br />
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So, in the meantime I am going to continue to do as many things as I can in the name of God. I am going to keep feeding homeless people every Saturday. I am going to keep volunteering in my Church elementary Sunday School class. I am going to keep being a foster parent and rescue as many children out of that horrible system as possible. I am going to keep trying harder and harder to forgive those who hurt me. I am not going to do these things because I think I am righteous or because I am trying to "earn" my way to heaven. I will do them because I am so grateful for my faith in God and what I believe He has done for me in my life. If I could live a hundred years and be completely perfect, I couldn't make up for all the wrong I have done. I am grateful for the second chance I believe God gave me. I am grateful that God could love someone as terrible as I once was, and sometimes still am. And since I can't pay Him back for my salvation, all I can do, is what I think He wants me to do. And I think He wants me to do these things.<br />
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No, I can't prove it, but I don't care. If you don't agree with me, fine. But shut up, and let me help people. Don't try to convince me that I am wrong and there is no God. I don't care what you think when it comes to my God. But know that if you ever need help, I will be there for you.<br />
because it's what I think God wants me to do.</div></div>Victorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02158634080397698768noreply@blogger.com24