I think it is important to point out, that although neither one of us changed our position, we had a good conversation without slinging insults and without getting personal. This is the goal of my blogging. To show more examples of how atheists and christians can completely disagree on a topic and still be civil to each other. He is still an atheist (he even has the atheist logo tattooed over his heart) and I am still a christian, but we get along.
The conversation was based on my last blog about "Is God really a jealous God?" This was Jay's comment:
Jay: if that was the case. that he is a jealous God, which he is, and your explanation makes some sense. Then why is the "devil" so well behaved? Isn't jealousy one of the seven deadly sins? let me explain my point further. Why is the devil a perfect gentleman, never talking back, never explaining why he does something, never complaining. But one time... he challenges god (bets him). But thats it. for a guy that constantly gets the short end of the stick. He never tries to explain his side of the story, or complains, etc. like the christian God does. Not even close! If you ask me God is an awfully whiny, jealous, unfair, hypocritical, narcissist and most definitely needs to learn some gentleman's manners from satan.
for those of you besides Victor reading this.. I'm not a satan worshipper. just playing the devils advocate.
^_^ Pun intended. Nor do I hate your God.... wait. yes I do. I hate the idea of "that" God.
Me: Everyone reading this: Jay totally worships satan, don't let him fool you. He even has a goat head mask. Ive seen it.
Me: but to answer your question, Jay most of what you said about the devil comes from "man," not what the Bible says. The Bible is very vague about Satan. other than he tried to overthrow God, which is quite a big deal, but doesn't necessarily live up to the hype of his evil that "men" have attributed him to.
Jay: good point but why wouldn't god give him a fair trial? why not let him says his peace while he blames everything on him? and are some of Gods traits the same as he tells you not to have, or becareful of?
Me: We don't know what happened exactly, when satan was expelled from heaven. The Bible doesn't say. And I don't try to put myself on the same plane of thinking as God. I don't have a true concept of infinity like He does. Without a true understanding of infinity, it is difficult to make sense of the "here and now" when the "here and now" is all we know.
Jay: hmmm yes but then why the human traits if hes an all knowing God and why the pathetic jealousy and narcissism. I know your answer to this is what you just said. but it doesn't satisfy my reasoning. :)
Me: well I didn't write it to satisfy your reasoning. I wrote it because I was asked a question. Besides when have you ever known me to try and convert you or get you to see things my religous way. I am just trying to get christians and atheists to quit fighting, and focus on real problems that they can actually solve if they worked together.
I think whether you agree with my reasoning or not, you can still find it valid and appreciate where I am coming from, in a subjective manner.
Jay: yup i can.
Me: and see? That is how a christian and an atheist can agree to disagree and coexist. Now we can stop talking about religion and focus on how we are going to get our country back from greedy politicians
Now, I know some people will say "that's great, I wish their could be more talks like that too. But the christians are too intent to try to tell everyone how to live their lives."
That statement is completely false. I don't know any christians who try to tell people how to live. I hear about a couple of churches that try to, but I don't listen to them, just like atheists don't listen to them. Some will say that politicians are always making laws with religious content and I want you to know, I will vote against them every time I see them on the ballot. Those aren't christians trying to tell you what to do, they are politicians trying to tell you what to do. And ALL politicians try to tell us how we should live our lives. They are doing what they do because they are politicians trying to appeal to certain special interest groups, not because they are christians. And don't even try to play the "well they do these things in the name of God" card, or I will pull out how many white supremacist groups do what they do in the name "preserving the true American way." You don't want me comparing you to nazi skinheads do you? They claim to be true American Patriots. You really think it's fair to "generalize" a group, based on what a small percentage of them do? Whether they have power or not, they don't get to speak for the entire group. And like I said, instead of arguing with me, why not join me in taking them down? Work with christians like me who don't want religion in politics. We are both fighting the same things but from different angles.
How powerful of a message would it be, if atheists and christians worked together on eliminating the same things they despised about "religion?" It can be done my friends. Indeed, it can.